srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha
kaliananda_saraswati: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha
henny_v_i: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha
srini_sadhu: We have a very good class ahead!
marsha lange: Om Sang Saraswatayai Namaha
srini_sadhu: Sutras 3 and 4!
srini_sadhu: Sutra 3: Janmasresthatvam Mrtyunjayatvam
srini_sadhu: Janmasresthatvam means the ultimate goal of life – the aim of life
srini_sadhu: Mrtyunjayatvam – is victory over death.
srini_sadhu: The Sutra says: The ultimate aim of life is victory over death.
srini_sadhu: Let’s discuss this!!
srini_sadhu: What is this Victory? Over what?
marsha lange: The perception that we are merely physical existence.
Cynkay Morningsong: freedom from fear
kaliananda_saraswati: The victory is wisdom over ignorance. i.e. remembrance of Who am I.
myrikveda2: victory over death to me is to leave the world a little better than it was when I came here
marsha lange: Myriikveda - I love this thought
henny_v_i: to me it means victory over the idea that imperfection is real
srini_sadhu: There is a great story from the Mahabharatha
srini_sadhu: Great story
srini_sadhu: Yudhishtra is having a conversation with the God of Death
srini_sadhu: Yama asks Yudhishtra this question
srini_sadhu: What is the greatest mystery in this world?
srini_sadhu: Yudhistra replies
srini_sadhu: Although many people are dying everyday, most of us don't think about our death.
srini_sadhu: Isn't the hope that we'll be living, the greatest mystery of all things?
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says the purpose of life is to generate something that continues beyond our lives.
srini_sadhu: something that does not die with death of our body – children, spiritual children, idea, institution, lineage of teachings
Ramya: So like Rik said - this is the victory - something that continues after our leaving physically - but i am wondering - how does this relate to the ideas that Marsha, Henny and Morning song said?
Ramya: Something perfect - permanent? Can we discuss that if you don't mind?
srini_sadhu: How do we think about what to leave behind?
henny_v_i: I am thinking that if we become more transparent and our true perfect permanent Self shines through, the demonstration of Its love and wisdom will be our legacy..
Ramya: Thanks Henny - That is so powerful! So you would say - our life would be the message? The legacy?
srini_sadhu: Should we leave something tangible or material for the benefit for the world?
Cynkay Morningsong: could you say something about what spiritual children are?
myrikveda2: It is not important if I am remembered. What matters is what is left behind by me.
Ramya: Spiritual children are children of the Guru - like disciples who carry on the lineage
BharatiMa: the would be a better place as a result of our life
Ramya: Yes - Rik i agree with your sentiments – but now i am really thinking what could it be that i could give?
marsha lange: My goal is to walk lightly on Mother Earth and strive for equal vision.
myrikveda2: We must give ourselves.
Ramya: so beautiful Marsha!
Ramya: How to give ourselves Rik - to whom and how?
BharatiMa: who is Rik?
srini_sadhu: myrikveda
Ramya: Rik is myrikveda2 - he is very sweet!
myrikveda2: Speak lovingly, help the needy, love the unloved and neglected.
Ramya: See - now you see how sweet he is!
myrikveda2: I am not saying I do it well, only that it is my goal!
Ramya: So one way to give - is to give time - Time for those in need.
srini_sadhu: So it seems like we cultivate attitudes that serve as inspiration for other people
srini_sadhu: Does thinking about giving inflate the ego?
Ramya: It is a beautiful goal - as also what Marsha and Henny and Bharati shared - it is very inspiring!
henny_v_i: yes, thank you Srini that is kind of what I meant
marsha lange: It only inflates the ego if you are looking for a reward.
srini_sadhu: Thank you Marsha!
myrikveda2: exactly
kaliananda_saraswati: this is why wisdom is so important
Ramya: Kali - you are silent today!
srini_sadhu: Perhaps off the topic, but here's an interesting quote
BharatiMa: if one is established in being, one automatically creates waves of harmony while acting in the world
srini_sadhu: After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one. - Cato the Elder
BharatiMa: one cannot make a mood of being harmonious
henny_v_i: wow, that is beautiful bharatima! That is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you
myrikveda2: good one!
Ramya: So is the goal to be in harmony - not think in concrete (i mean tangibly) of what we leave behind? do you understand my confusion?
srini_sadhu: Again, should we create something tangible and leave it for the world? Is it enough become wise, realize God, and be peaceful
Ramya: oops - looks like Srini is also confused like me!
marsha lange: Srini - I practice the later mostly.
henny_v_i: well, I think if you realize all that, something good will come out of your hands as well, like books and videos and cd's and an ashram...
Ramya: Thanks Marsha and Henny!
Cynkay Morningsong: maybe it is something like everyone has their own work. For some it will be something tangible, and for others it will be to realize God
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Thinking about your question on how to conquer death - Anything that is born has to die. The only way to "conquer" death is to realize that "I" am not this body that was born and has to die someday. The only way to "conquer" death is the realization that "I am the form of the bliss of consciousness, I am Shiva I am Shiva"
myrikveda2: beautiful Nandaji!
srini_sadhu: Morningsong said earlier Victory over Death is Freedom from Fear
henny_v_i: I agree, Nanda
srini_sadhu: How do we attain that freedom?
kaliananda_saraswati: to me wisdom allows a being to understand his true purpose here on earth. To serve. Love unconditionally.
kaliananda_saraswati: Nice Nandaji
Ramya: Yes - Morning song - but i think many saints do both too!
Nanda Krishnamurthi: awww
Cynkay Morningsong: I can think of one in particular
marsha lange: How do we attain that freedom. I still believe not being attached to the fruit of our actions. Realizing that harm and healing happen all the time, so do your best. Not to act is still to act.
Ramya: Marsha - that is the goal indeed!
srini_sadhu: Thank you Marsha/Orca
Ramya: Kali - one aspect of the wisdom is discharging our debts - with which we are born
Ramya: We have 3 debts of Karma
Ramya: 1. To Devas - all Gods and Goddesses - we discharge by making a contribution to life
Ramya: 2. Ancestors – taking care of elderly and nurturing the young
Ramya: 3. Gurus – Live in accordance to the wisdom they teach
BharatiMa: so, if we discharge our debts of karma, we will be free? if so, how do we do that?
marsha lange: Puja, charity & satsang.
myrikveda2: I prefer to see them as opportunities rather than debts.
srini_sadhu: Back to the topic of death, when we are faced with the moment of death, what should our attitude be?
Cynkay Morningsong: I like that Rick!
myrikveda2:
Cynkay Morningsong: focused on God
marsha lange: I hope to be chanting the name of the divine.
Ramya: If we are not free from our karma 'opportunities" maybe we will be thinking of them at the moment of our death?
BharatiMa: live in accordance with teachings of Gurus and support them, serve them-donate to them, so they can continue to inspire us
myrikveda2: If we are acting on the opportunities, then God will be our attitude.
kaliananda_saraswati: Nice rick
myrikveda2: all the time, not just at death
Ramya: Thanks Rik - and if we have that attitude in life, by God's own Grace, we will be with Him at the moment of leaving this body.
myrikveda2: I am staking my whole life on it.
srini_sadhu: Intellectually I know death is certain, and that Gurus say we should chant the divine name, but why is not sinking in to my heart??
Ramya: you need to do more sadhana maybe?
marsha lange: I found that you have to have faith in the beginning.
Cynkay Morningsong: but the only thing that dies is our meat bag, so the rest of it would just be fear of the unknown right?
BharatiMa: how do we get our head and our heart to function in harmony?
srini_sadhu: Thanks Rik! Nice question BharatiMa!
kaliananda_saraswati: death of the body is sure Srini but with Maa and Swamiji resident in your heart what death is there? not of the soul.
henny_v_i: perhaps if we love enough, our heart will convince our head.
Ramya: Yes - morningsong - i think it is our attachment to our meat bags that creates fear.
kaliananda_saraswati: sorry not of the soul should have been deleted.
marsha lange: Heart & head balance - For me it is letting go of all my preconceived notions.
myrikveda2: lol, meat bags
Ramya: Henny - to love enough -- so beautiful!
srini_sadhu: I was reading just now that we should not just live in the present moment every moment, but live in the moment with love
Ramya: Also - i think making head and heart in balance is doing each action with respect with efficiency and love!
BharatiMa: head is intellect, heart is faith. How to balance both? Certainly not thru intellectual reasoning?
myrikveda2: very nice Ramya
Ramya: Our head tells us how to do the action - our heart pours love -- We are efficient and showing respect and offering to God!
BharatiMa: Shree Maa says every action should be done with respect
Ramya: As we offer every action with love to God and do our best for the universe - we move to that beautiful space of love and live there -- where there is no fear, no past, no future. At least i see this is how Mother and Swamiji live!
marsha lange: bharatima - not through intellect alone but using all of you resources intuition and just mere faith.
srini_sadhu: I was thinking a few days ago, that we are running this race, and death is another guy chasing us.
srini_sadhu: When he catches us, we should simply smile and let him pass
Ramya: No - he is waiting for you in the finish line -- and are running towards him!
Ramya: You can hug him!!!
BharatiMa: good ramya
myrikveda2: Death is our friend, taking us into the eternal embrace of Maa
srini_sadhu: This has been great! Could we discuss Sutra 4
BharatiMa: death is not real unless you make him so. What and who dies? Only the meat bag we are one with God, we only have to realize it
Ramya: Thanks Bharati, Rik, Marsha, Kali, Henny, Nanda - i am learning so much and its so fun!!!
Ramya: yes
srini_sadhu: Sutra 4?
Nanda Krishnamurthi: yes
kaliananda_saraswati: yes
srini_sadhu: Chandimaakijai!
marsha lange: yes
henny_v_i: ok
srini_sadhu: # 4 Kamaradhanena vidyavidyaphalitam
BharatiMa: yes
myrikveda2: Chandimaakijai!
Ramya: Kama – desire
Ramya: Aradhanena – by means of the attempt to satisfy or satiate desire
Ramya: Vidyavidya – Knowledge or ignorance
Ramya: Phalitam – fruit
srini_sadhu: The fruit of an attempt to satisfy desire is either knowledge or ignorance.
srini_sadhu: When we fulfill a desire we remain ignorant or become wise
Ramya: Either we strengthen our ego or surrender it to God.
srini_sadhu: So again we are back to discrimination
srini_sadhu: How should we live from moment from moment as we live our lives?
srini_sadhu: The main thing in this Sutra, Swamiji talks about is that
srini_sadhu: when we are faced with a stimulus we sometimes become emotional and act without thinking
srini_sadhu: Is emotion bad?
Nanda Krishnamurthi: yes
srini_sadhu: Why Nanda?
Ramya: Nanda - isn't love an emotion? Can it not motivate us to give more?
Nanda Krishnamurthi: because it clouds objectivity
BharatiMa: does this return to the central premise: having a goal and using discrimination to focus every thought, emotion, and action towards that goal?
henny_v_i: I feel it is neither good nor bad. Emotions are like waves; they can take us to the shore or drag us into deep waters
BharatiMa: yes henny
marsha lange: It is another form of expression. How we communicate. It is spontaneous. Good or bad depends on how it is perceived.
Cynkay Morningsong: I'm not sure if emotions are good or bad, I think that what is more important is our responses to them
Ramya: Thanks Henny and Bharatima - it sounds "easy" -- just discriminate each moment - but it is hard in practice - for me.
henny_v_i: for me too!
myrikveda2: me too!
BharatiMa: me too, but it is the goal. How to strengthen our resolve?
Ramya: Morningsong - Swamiji says ask yourself if your response is going to take you closer to the goal or not?
srini_sadhu: Perhaps Swamiji meant emotionally = without discrimination.
henny_v_i: ok, I understand. To let yourself be carried away by every wave that comes along is not a good idea in my book.
Ramya: Bharatima - i asked Swamiji this - how to be more aware and conscious - how to strengthen our resolve?
BharatiMa: agreed hen, but how to become strong and stable?
Ramya: He said one way is to do everything with a mantra.
Ramya: Swamiji said he never turns the car engine on without the Navarna mantra. He never enters a room without invoking Ganesh. He says a mantra before He drinks a glass of water, eats, switches to a computer program
myrikveda2: wow
henny_v_i: therefore we bow down to the respected Guru
Ramya: He said - if you list all the activities you do in a day, you can see how many of them you can do with mantra - it is so amazing and powerful!!!!
Ramya: We can all try it - this week!!!
myrikveda2: what a great practice!
henny_v_i: Yes!!!!!!!!
BharatiMa: good idea
srini_sadhu: Switch to Mantra Mode as soon as an unfriendly emotion envelopes our mind?
Ramya: Just list activities each day - and think of a mantra to go with it! It is super-dooper fun!!
marsha lange: Making life an act of worship. Jai Ma
BharatiMa: lets make a group sankalpa
Ramya: Ok - count me in!!!
srini_sadhu: Maa said Shiva is the Lord of Metals.
Cynkay Morningsong: okay
kaliananda_saraswati: ok
BharatiMa: what is lord of metals mean?
srini_sadhu: When we wash steel plates, we can say Om Namah Shivayah
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Swamiji says "Hrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimm" before hitting the "enter" key of the keyboard
myrikveda2: I am going to start my list today! Hrim!
Ramya: It will be fun to list our activities and think of accompanying mantras!!!
srini_sadhu: Htim
srini_sadhu: Uh-oh
srini_sadhu: Hrim
BharatiMa: good catch
srini_sadhu: The book also talks about Bija Mantras associated with each emotion
BharatiMa: what other mantras for specific use? for working, or driving?
srini_sadhu: You can use these to take control over your emotions
Ramya: It is a very powerful technique - sometimes when i felt sad or afraid i used it to and believe it or not -- i was smiling at the end of one mala!
BharatiMa: what book has the mantras you speak of?
Ramya: The technique is: Say the Bija Mantra of a Negative Emotion followed by Bija Mantra of the Positive Emotion -- do one mala and end with a smile!
srini_sadhu: For example, kraum is the bija mantra for anger and sham is the bija mantra for peace.
Cynkay Morningsong: I did it this week with something I was struggling with and it dissolved the emotion... it was perfect!
Ramya: Guru and Goddess - The book with the Kashyapa Sutras we are discussing
srini_sadhu: So when we feel anger, we do one mala of kraum followed by one mala of sham
srini_sadhu: Or we do one mala of kraum alternating with sham
Ramya: You can see the list of negative and positive emotions and mantras in the Guru and the Goddess book.
srini_sadhu: I am going to try it
kaliananda_saraswati: pg 39 bharatima
Ramya: thanks Morningsong for sharing
Ramya: So in ordinary course of day - we can make a list of activities we do and pair with an appropriate mantra -- HRIM
BharatiMa: what a great idea, i will try it too
Ramya: But when we have emotional or difficult situations, we can take recourse to this technique offered to us by Swamiji in Guru and the Goddess
Ramya: What do you guys think?
henny_v_i: How do we know which mantra is appropriate for which activity?
Ramya: We make it up!
henny_v_i:
BharatiMa: same question as henny
myrikveda2: It is beautiful Ramya.
srini_sadhu: What we have learned from Maa and Swamiji we will post on club
henny_v_i: thank you!
marsha lange: thank you
BharatiMa: thank you, and Jai Maa, vish and bharati
Ramya: Also, as much as we feel comfortable, we can post our lists of activities and mantras!!!
srini_sadhu: I had a good discussion! Looking forward to your posts on the club!
myrikveda2: thank you Ramya and Srini!
myrikveda2: and everyone!
Ramya: Thank you everybody! Namaste! Jai Maa! Om! om! Om!!!
BharatiMa: it is great to share on the club with those who are not here today. maybe more will join us? any ideas how to get more folks here?
Cynkay Morningsong: thank you! what a great class
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Jai Maa - thanks for the thought provoking questions
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Namaste
kaliananda_saraswati: Thanks to all. Jai Maa,
Cynkay Morningsong: namaste'
srini_sadhu: Hrim
marsha lange: Again another great satsang. Blessings
henny_v_i: yes, thank you all! Namaste. Thanks Srini and Ramya!