srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: Sutra # 3
srini_sadhu: Janmasresthatvam Mrtyunjayatvam
srini_sadhu: Janmasresthatvam means the ultimate goal of life
srini_sadhu: Mrtyunjayatvam – is victory over death.
srini_sadhu: The ultimate aim of life is victory over death.
srini_sadhu: This topic is most interesting to spiritual seekers and life insurance agents
srini_sadhu: It is cryptic
srini_sadhu: Could we discuss: "What is this Victory?" and "Over what?"
Sarada Devi: something that will not perish after the body dies
Janitri Rybacki: possibly not being forced to return to Earth to finish karma .. breaking the cycle of life and death.
srini_sadhu: So Janitri, do you thing the ultimate victory is not coming back to Planet Earth
Sarada Devi: a continuation of consciousness like the turiya state
Alphansa DSouza: Victory to be one with the Lord
Janitri Rybacki: i don't mind Earth...it's just when it is a requirement to finish karma with a more or less "forced" way that i would like to break
BharatiMa: Jan-do think it is possible NOT to finish karma?
Sarada Devi: if i am awake karma cannot bind me
Janitri Rybacki: forced to come back...that's all. when it is done willing for God, then maybe it's different.
Janitri Rybacki: i don't know if we ever finish karma
srini_sadhu: Here's another question, suppose we had not read this Sutra and we had to fill in blanks
Alphansa DSouza: I agree with Janitri.
srini_sadhu: What would your greatest victory be in your current circumstance be?
srini_sadhu: Namaste Tara!
srini_sadhu: Namaste Ramya!
Sarada Devi: One of Sri Ramakrishna's direct disciples used to say " thanks to the grace of my master i know that i am not the body
Ramya: Jai Maa!
Tara Boyce: Namaste Srini and everyone
lokesh lokesh: victory over the mind, stilling the thought waves
Janitri Rybacki: Namaste Tara, Ramya
Tara Boyce: Namaste Janitri
srini_sadhu: If I could be awake and cheerful in all circumstances that would a victory worth celebrating
BharatiMa: does anyone think we can be finished with all karma?
Tara Boyce: Feeling more peace, more divine more of the time
Ramya: These are all end states - how do we get there?
Sarada Devi: guru has the roadmap
srini_sadhu: Here's an interesting Story
srini_sadhu: In the Mahabharatha, there is a dialogue between Yudhishtra and Yama (his father)
Sarada Devi: guru has the grace - with the sails of devotion service and prayer
srini_sadhu: Yama asks What is the greatest mystery in this world ?
srini_sadhu: Yudhishtra replies
srini_sadhu: Although many people are dying everyday, most of us don't think about our death.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says that the recognition of death causes people to try to leave something behind
srini_sadhu: Give birth to something that does not die with death of our body
srini_sadhu: children, spiritual children, idea, institution, lineage of teachings …
srini_sadhu: Should we think about what we should leave behind?
srini_sadhu: What do you think?
srini_sadhu: Is this a relevant question for a seeker?
Sarada Devi: it is part of my sadhana to think about my death every day it builds perspective for me
Janitri Rybacki: i don't know .. if the seeker is not enlightened, is it good to leave writings and teachings behind that weren't from an enlightened one?
BharatiMa: usha-what ideas come up when you think about death each day?
Tara Boyce: I think i am trying leave as much behind as possible
Sarada Devi: not so much ideas now, but a deeper connection to what is important - only MOTHER- on a feeling intuitive level
BharatiMa: how about thinking about it this way, if i am leaving for a trip and not coming back for a long time. Do i want to leave things undone or do i want to pay all my debts?
Ramya: Janitiri - that's a good question - my humble opinion is we make our contribution to the world - with the best of our abilities and capabilities.
Janitri Rybacki: thank you Ramya
Ramya: Tara - that's so great! Usha - its inspiring that you think like this each day!
Alphansa DSouza: There are levels of seeking. First one seeks liberation for himself. Then I guess if he can help others to be free, one should definitely help others
Ramya: Bharatima - does your question relate to what Tara was saying -- leaving as much as possible behind?
srini_sadhu: Bharati Ma, its hard for me to think in terms of my debts
srini_sadhu: I asked Swamiji this once
Ramya: What did Swamiji say?
srini_sadhu: I asked Him , Swamiji suppose you feel you owe things to different people, and you want to get out of that feeling
srini_sadhu: What do you do?
Sarada Devi: there is tremendous fear of death we all have \ it keeps us from opening fully often
srini_sadhu: He said give double of what you feel you owe
Sarada Devi: i was told once that if we give " it should hurt a little "
BharatiMa: srini -so does that relieve you of the debt?
srini_sadhu: I hope so
Ramya: What types of debts are you talking about?
srini_sadhu: Swamiji talks about three types of debts
srini_sadhu: To ancestors, devas, and gurus
srini_sadhu: We take care of our debt to ancestors by taking care of elderly and nurturing the young
srini_sadhu: To the Gurus, by living in accordance to the wisdom they teach
srini_sadhu: To Devas by making a contribution to all life
Sarada Devi: seems to me if we all did this world would be in balance
Ramya: So my understanding then is that one way to prepare for death or a better next life - is to clear as much past karma (debts) in this life as possible. is that right?
Alphansa DSouza: To Devas by making a contribution to all life ? Please explain
Ramya: And not make new karma to clear in the future
srini_sadhu: Alphansa, this would how to make a contribution to the world, how do you use your mind and body to help the world
Sarada Devi: pay back to all life - the law of reciprocal maintenance
Alphansa DSouza: ok
BharatiMa: alph-by performing all actions w/utmost efficiency
Ramya: Also, we can't have peace, liberation...without making a contribution to al life, that is my learning from this sutra. Does that make sense?
Janitri Rybacki: alphansojohn, to me it means also helping each one along the way ... from the bug to the plants to the elder needing a tender smile
Ramya: So sweet Janitri - imagining your tender smile and smiling here!
srini_sadhu: Sutra #4?
Alphansa DSouza: great!
srini_sadhu: This Sutra says: Kamaradhanena vidyavidyaphalitam
Tara Boyce: I love Maa's teachings that spirituality is giving more than you take
srini_sadhu: Kama – desire
srini_sadhu: Aradhanena – by means of the attempt to satisfy or satiate desire
Sarada Devi: ultimately even my body will again return to energy the law seems to be sacrifice
srini_sadhu: Vidya: Knowledge
srini_sadhu: Avidya: Ignorance
srini_sadhu: Phalitam: Fruit
Ramya: So this sutra says
Ramya: The fruit of an attempt to satisfy desire is either knowledge or ignorance.
Ramya: When we fulfill a desire - either it takes us closer to God or binds us further with more karma in this world
Ramya: It either strengthens our ego or helps us surrender our ego
srini_sadhu: Let's think of things we do everyday - do they take us away or close to God?
BharatiMa: so if i do puja everyday that helps me gain liberation and produces knowledge?
Sarada Devi: also can puja fulfill some of that debt?
Sarada Devi: keep balance
srini_sadhu: I think it depends on our attitude to Puja.
srini_sadhu: I don’t know about liberation
srini_sadhu: If we do the Puja purely to help others, it would purify our minds
BharatiMa: if i am doing it everyday with the right attitude then i think i am performing my karma to satisfy both devas and my guru
Ramya: If we do it with love and devotion it helps us come closer to God and fulfills debt to Devas, is not?
BharatiMa: thus i am relieving my karmic debt and moving toward greater light and harmony = liberation
Ramya: Thanks Vish & BharatiMa - that makes sense to me!
BharatiMa: does everyone agree
srini_sadhu: When we do Puja, are we wiser or do we remain ignorant - what do you think, guys?
BharatiMa: what is everyone
Alphansa DSouza: Does not Work becomes worship when done as a service to the Lord and without selfish attachment to the results?
BharatiMa: alph great we agree
Janitri Rybacki: makes us wiser, puja...
Tara Boyce: I think when we do puja we are burning away our ignorance
BharatiMa: tara-we agree
Janitri Rybacki: lifting the dark clouds around us...puja brings the sunshine
BharatiMa: let the sunshine..........................
Ramya: yes - Alphanso - One person once was telling Maa how much he enjoyed doing worship and i heard Maa saying "What is not worship? All work is worship. All karma offer to God and make worship."
Ramya: Then She said, "Make lovey-dovey with each karma."
Sarada Devi: we are little transmitters of bliss - then
BharatiMa: i once heard Swamiji say He says mantras with every action
BharatiMa: these actions then become divine worship
srini_sadhu: Why do you think He does that?
Tara Boyce: to make all his actions divine actions
Janitri Rybacki: Swamiji does this because He is Love.
Sarada Devi: because he is in love
srini_sadhu: Namaste mvr6482
Alphansa DSouza: to remain in tune with the Lord
mvr6482: namaste
BharatiMa: janit-what do you think would happen if you tried this method?-thinking mantras while performing action
Janitri Rybacki: it would make me happier
BharatiMa: then lets all try to do this during the coming week
srini_sadhu: Swamiji discusses various emotions that overtake us
BharatiMa: what do you think?
Sarada Devi: when there is mantra there can be no inner talking
Janitri Rybacki: i'm for it, bharatima!
srini_sadhu: Like anger, pain, peace and so on
BharatiMa: srini-how does that work?
srini_sadhu: He says that when we have a negative emotion, the best way to deal with that is to pray with a mantra
BharatiMa: makes sense
srini_sadhu: Suppose we feel a wave of anger
srini_sadhu: We stop and say mantras
srini_sadhu: For each emotion, he has listed some bija mantras
srini_sadhu: For example for anger, the bija mantra is "kraum"
Sarada Devi: first we need a space between the impulse and action in that space we can say mantra - but we need to be awake!
srini_sadhu: The opposite emotion is "peace"
srini_sadhu: I agree Usha!
srini_sadhu: The bija for peace is "sham"
Ramya: We want to replace our feeling of anger with peace.
srini_sadhu: So when we get angry, we stop, remember, and say one mala of "kraum" followed by one mala of "sham"
Ramya: "kraum" is the bija mantra for anger
srini_sadhu: And keep doing that until we watch anger dissolve into peace
Sarada Devi: so we could identify our most frequent negative emotions and know the appropriate counter mantra
srini_sadhu: Yup!!!
srini_sadhu: All the Mantras are in the Guru and Goddess book
srini_sadhu: Its really fun just to read all the negative and positive emotions
Ramya: Also, we could think of the emotion we want to fill our life -- peace, joy, love...and chant that bija mantra too!
srini_sadhu: Like Bharati ma was saying we could think of filling our week with mantras this week
srini_sadhu: For all our actions
srini_sadhu: For example when Swamiji crosses any door, He says "Om Ganeshaya Namaha"
srini_sadhu: What do you guys think?
Tara Boyce: what’s the best for cleaning?
srini_sadhu: Kleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem
Janitri Rybacki: couldn't be better doing this as a group!!
BharatiMa: i am going to make a list the emotions I wish to eliminate and those i wish to replace them with=then when the emotion comes up i will be prepared to do the malas
Tara Boyce: I love this idea
lokesh lokesh: will strive to use more mantra this week
srini_sadhu: We could post some of the mantras that Maa and Swamiji have taught us
Sarada Devi: a wonderful practical way to inner work
Janitri Rybacki: please do the post
BharatiMa: srini great idea
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says Hrim each time he moves a file on His computer to a folder
Sarada Devi: constant effort to stay awake
srini_sadhu: I would love it we could all share on the Yahoo club any mantras that help us in our daily lives
BharatiMa: srini-it would be helpful for us to have some mantras for our everyday life
srini_sadhu: When we wake up, Maa told us to say "Om gam ganapathaye Namaha" and bow down
Tara Boyce: what mantra when we bow down to our self?
Ramya: Also when you start anything --like a car Swamiji uses Navarna Mantra
BharatiMa: usha - this whole technique works on the premise that we use our discrimination -head, & intuition-heart as we perform actions whose goal is to bring us to god
srini_sadhu: I don’t know Tara, but I will ask Swamiji
Ramya: When you start a new project on the computer - we can pray to Saraswati - Om Sam Saraswatyai Namaha
Ramya: Its fun to make a list of all our activities and think of which mantra to say!!! Its fun to say them too!
Ramya: Swamiji told me to do this one time.
Ramya: make a list of activities
srini_sadhu: Any other questions?
BharatiMa: vish and bharati would like everyone to take a sankalpa for the week to practice this technique and share our experiences on the club
Sarada Devi: always and everywhere - remember!!!!!
Alphansa DSouza: It all sounds too good to be true. I am looking forward to practice it myself.
Ramya: Me too, Alphanso!
srini_sadhu: Thank you all for your patience!
BharatiMa: see you all on the club
Sarada Devi: let the sunshine in!
Janitri Rybacki: thank you, Ramya and Srini, and everyone!
lokesh lokesh: thank you namaste
Tara Boyce: Thank you everyone
BharatiMa: JAI MAA namaste vish/bharati
Alphansa DSouza: Thank you all...