srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
BharatiMa: Kali welcome my good friend
srini_sadhu: Let us begin our discussion
kaliananda_saraswati: Jai Maa, nice to see you all
srini_sadhu: Today our topics for discussion are Dharma and Samadhi
srini_sadhu: Under Dharma, we could discuss what is Dharma, what is our Dharma, how do we find out our Dharma
srini_sadhu: How does that sound?
Debi GLSDM: great
Cynkay Morningsong: great
BharatiMa: jaimaa
henny_v_i: ok
kaliananda_saraswati: good
srini_sadhu: Are there other things that all of you would like to discuss under Dharma
vish108weshwar: good
srini_sadhu: As we do this please think of questions on Dharma that we can take to Swamiji
BharatiMa: How do we respect others dharma with no judgment
Debi GLSDM: good question especially us with families
vish108weshwar: how do we raise children?
srini_sadhu: Under Samadhi we will discuss the different ways of perceiving the world, types of samadhi
srini_sadhu: Thanks Vish - sure - if others are interested in this topic
Debi GLSDM: yes
BharatiMa: welcome tara
Tara Boyce: Namaste Srini and everyone
srini_sadhu: Jai Maa Tara!
henny_v_i: namaste Tara
Cynkay Morningsong: namaste
vish108weshwar: namaste
srini_sadhu: OK, we will write a few things from the text to set the stage and then open for discussion
srini_sadhu: We would love to hear form you all! (Francesca too!)
srini_sadhu: Sutra # 5
srini_sadhu: Srstidharmena jivayatra
srini_sadhu: Srsti is creation
srini_sadhu: Dharmena is “by means of Dharma”
srini_sadhu: Jiva means the individual soul
srini_sadhu: Yatra is pilgrimage or journey
srini_sadhu: There are two interpretations of this.
srini_sadhu: This creation is a collection of individual souls who are making their personal pilgrimages by means of Dharma
srini_sadhu: The alternative interpretation is
srini_sadhu: Dharma comes about in creation when every individual strives in its pilgrimage towards perfection.
srini_sadhu: So one attitude is: everyone is doing their Dharma
srini_sadhu: The other attitude is: Let us all strive to do our Dharma
BharatiMa: even those who are not doing nice actions?
Ramya: Bharatima, i am also wondering - what is "dharma" and what is "nice"? can we discuss this, everybody?
Tara Boyce: yes
Ramya: i know you are nice -- very nice, Bharatima!
srini_sadhu: How do you all understand the word "Dharma"
BharatiMa: but others act in mean or angry ways
kaliananda_saraswati: a kind of destiny?
Debi GLSDM: is it doing what we came here to do
Ramya: is all action Dharma?
Tara Boyce: doing one's true duty
BharatiMa: srini-i think of dharma as my path in life
Cynkay Morningsong: I'm also wondering about the idea of striving to do our dharma...is there a "striving" or is it something that we do simply by the nature of being on our jivayatra
henny_v_i: for me, it has to do with a process of growth or evolution. Some types of growth are perhaps not nice in the perception of others.
Debi GLSDM: guess the striving would come in when we are enticed to leave our path of dharma?
BharatiMa: hen-that's where i am confused
srini_sadhu: In the Taittriya Upanishad, there is an injunction, "Dharmam Chara": Do your Dharma
Debi GLSDM: we would strive to stay on the target for our goal
Ramya: Wow!! so much food for thought!
BharatiMa: i say not nice but that seems to be judgmental
srini_sadhu: I grew up with the understanding that Dharma meant moral virtuous conduct
Ramya: Swamiji defines it as "ideal of perfection"
BharatiMa: ram-what does that mean?
Debi GLSDM: what seems not nice to one can be ok to another in some cases
Ramya: It can be our inspiration, our goal, as Debi said (studen617...=Debi)
srini_sadhu: There is a dharma for individuals and Dharma for a group
kaliananda_saraswati: i agree it is difficult to understand that harming or the perception of causing harm or pain to another is someone's dharma
srini_sadhu: When you are alone there is no conflict about Dharma
henny_v_i: Perhaps we can refuse to like the behavior without condemning the one who is the one who behaves. Because someone's goal is limited by his or her understanding.
srini_sadhu: When there is a group, you start wondering about what others should be doing for the group and judgment arises
BharatiMa: hen-good
kaliananda_saraswati: that is easy if you are not the one suffering the hurt or pain Henny
kaliananda_saraswati: still you are true
henny_v_i: perhaps that's the challenge for us
kaliananda_saraswati: i guess so
vish108weshwar: remember, the actions we perform today are a result of prior actions. so what else can a "bad" person do?
BharatiMa: srin-why do you think actions change in a group
Debi GLSDM: example: neighbors are young loud riding 4 wheeler and boom boxing here now. I rule it as neg. but it is teaching me to focus and except
srini_sadhu: In response to Bharati
srini_sadhu: Swamiji told us a proverb about Sadhus
Ramya: What a great attitude, Debi - using each situation to learn and grow beautiful!
srini_sadhu: If there is one Sadhu, there is peace
Debi GLSDM: I think action changes in group because we want to be excepted in some cases
srini_sadhu: If there are two Sadhus, it is comfortable
srini_sadhu: One stays at home and the other goes to the market
srini_sadhu: If there are three sadhus, we have government
srini_sadhu: Three Sadhus: Politics
srini_sadhu: Four Sadhus: there is confusion
BharatiMa: sri-is there confusion due to our egos?
vish108weshwar: so how to have harmony is a group, even when they have like mind and like goals?
Debi GLSDM: respect, acceptance, understanding, love,
Debi GLSDM: patience
srini_sadhu: To everybody, what is the secret for establishing and maintaining Group Dharma
kaliananda_saraswati: Respect
Debi GLSDM: doing one thing at a time and sticking to it and having a good leader
henny_v_i: devotion to the Guru, that is where we all meet
Debi GLSDM: yes
Ramya: Love Thy Neighbor as thyself
srini_sadhu: Like Debi's example, we see some one doing something patently wrong. Do we accept or suggest change
vish108weshwar: Maa says: do not be attached to your actions
BharatiMa: respect others for their dharma/yatra
Tara Boyce: honoring oneself and others
Cynkay Morningsong: maintaining the attitude that our personal perspective is limited and so we need to allow for the wisdom of everyone there to shine through
srini_sadhu: Beautiful - thank you all!
BharatiMa: sri-i don't think few ever really listen to another about their behavior
Debi GLSDM: yes and not stick my nose in unless asked (miss fix-it) shree maa call ego
vish108weshwar: if I see someone doing something wrong, I have to check it out for sometime before i speak up. i first have to accept, then, patiently suggest. but, this is hard, especially with family
Debi GLSDM: mantra before action helps me
srini_sadhu: That's nice Debi
Ramya: So we have our own "ideal" that we strive for and so do others - so we need
srini_sadhu: Good to remember before talking to someone
BharatiMa: sri-maybe if we just watched others behavior and not let it effect us
Cynkay Morningsong: F: how do you determine what is "wrong"
srini_sadhu: Good question!
srini_sadhu: Everyone has different ideals of perfection
vish108weshwar: in the case of a spiritual family, the Master sets the rules.
Ramya: Based on our goals - we can determine what is "wrong" for us.
BharatiMa: ram-yes ONLY wrong for us not for others
henny_v_i: for me, 'wrong' is what hurts others
vish108weshwar: in a biological family, mom and dad set the rules; in a work place the boss sets the rules
srini_sadhu: Ahimsa - very nice!
Ramya: Yes - if we start policing others - we won't have time to fix our "wrongs"
BharatiMa: Vish-we should watch the actions of our guru to see what is correct action
srini_sadhu: What are some concrete things we can do to cultivate a non-judgmental attitude?
srini_sadhu: How to be in witness - bhava?
henny_v_i: not take our own opinions too seriously?
vish108weshwar: learn to be like water
Debi GLSDM: be more secure with ourselves
BharatiMa: hen-can we really let others actions that are hurting others effect us?
Cynkay Morningsong: I like to remember that God is everywhere, even if my limited perspective can't see her in some situation
Tara Boyce: Feel where they may be coming from
Cynkay Morningsong: F: not to be in judgment of ourselves
Ramya: Thanks Morningsong - that really helps me to remember and be happy!
Debi GLSDM: that’s a big one for me too i'm my own worse judge
Debi GLSDM: that’s where insecurity comes in
srini_sadhu: I thought of three things: become really busy with your own dharma, pray to God to teach us acceptance, become absorbed in your beloved to the exclusion of all other thoughts
vish108weshwar: great srini
Ramya: Debi - in Chandi Path there is a thought called "Self-Deprecation" and He troubles me too - the way to get of it, Swamiji said is to pray to Chandi!
vish108weshwar: if we accept everything as God's will
kaliananda_saraswati: yes, very nice srini
srini_sadhu: One more question on Dharma, before we move to Sutra # 6
Ramya: Offer all thoughts to Mother and just love Her and sit in Her lap and play!
Debi GLSDM: thanks ramya
srini_sadhu: Francesca's question
BharatiMa: ram-so if someone is mean to me i could say a chandi mantra instead of hollering at them?
Ramya: Its more fun to say it too, isn't it?
srini_sadhu: How do we find out our Dharma, our ideal of perfection?
Debi GLSDM: and smile and try to understand that they have problems too bharatima
BharatiMa: sometimes i act w/out thinking
Debi GLSDM: don't we all
kaliananda_saraswati: we all do Bharatima
henny_v_i: indeed
srini_sadhu:
vish108weshwar: yes
Ramya: Our ideal of perfection - is it our inspiration - a person or a quality?
BharatiMa: but i will try to think the mantra B4 acting-that way i don't continue creating more debts
Tara Boyce: srini-we know what it is inside
Debi GLSDM: finding dharma for me is a feelings I have always had ex : always desired God
Debi GLSDM: does that make since?
srini_sadhu: Yes Debi!
vish108weshwar: in my heart this are impulses which have been present since i can remember. but i was not clear which ones to follow. how to become clear which ones are best?
henny_v_i: Ramya, for me it is all of the above: the inspiration I feel to cultivate love and peace I see standing before me in the lovely form of Shree Maa.
Debi GLSDM: something we have always wanted from childhood
Debi GLSDM: something we are drawn too
vish108weshwar: i feels same debi
srini_sadhu: Sometimes we find our Dharma from our experiences
BharatiMa: i have been striving for perfect action since very little girl
srini_sadhu: Sometimes by hanging out with an inspiring person
Ramya: So great Debi and Henny - i think we have a "feeling" and then we look for an "example" - we want God and we see someone who is with God - They help make our "ideal" more real!
srini_sadhu: Sometimes by reading the scriptures, the word of God
BharatiMa: Maa says "cultivate spiritual friends"
vish108weshwar: i am trying to help my 17 year old son find his dharma
henny_v_i: yes, that's it (for me, that is)
Debi GLSDM: but i think deep down these are feeling that we have always had & it takes them to see it
henny_v_i: yes, debi, it is a kind of recognition, I think
vish108weshwar: when we are with Shree Maa, She always blesses us by asking God to give us pure devotion
Debi GLSDM: What is he best at. Deepak says find what you love doing and turn it into service for others and you will be rich in all ways
BharatiMa: by being with other seekers we will find it sooner i would think
vish108weshwar: that is so true
Debi GLSDM: yea
Ramya: My learning from Swamiji's teachings is that to make these Feelings a reality in our life -- We need to make concrete goals - written out - and live our lives with discrimination to reach them.
srini_sadhu: Before we move to Sutra # 6, any final words?
Cynkay Morningsong: f: instead of striving for perfect actions why not perfect our actions?
Debi GLSDM: hmm
BharatiMa: what?
srini_sadhu: Thank you Francesca, baby steps - I like it
vish108weshwar: in the Gita, Krishna says: become established in being, then perform action
Debi GLSDM: perfecting what we do
srini_sadhu: Sutra # 6
Debi GLSDM: oooo like that 108
srini_sadhu: Jivasaubhagyam prakasanam
Debi GLSDM: cant do until we know
vish108weshwar: the more we are harmony with God, the more our actions will automatically be harmonious
srini_sadhu: Sau means excellent
srini_sadhu: Bhagyam means fortune or wealth
srini_sadhu: Jiva is life
srini_sadhu: Prakasanam is illumination
Ramya: The sutra says -- The highest wealth of individual existence is intuitive illumination.
srini_sadhu: Kashyapa Muni gives us a goal to strive for
srini_sadhu: Not a path, but the definition of a goal
srini_sadhu: Two topics here
srini_sadhu: One, how do we perceive things?
srini_sadhu: Two, What are different forms of Samadhi.
srini_sadhu: Are there things that any one would like to discuss as we go on?
srini_sadhu:
kaliananda_saraswati: nothing at this point
srini_sadhu: Ok!
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says
srini_sadhu: There are three ways of perceiving
Tara Boyce: when you say not a path but a goal, does that mean we create the path?
srini_sadhu: Through the senses, through the mind, by intuition
srini_sadhu: Or the Guru shows the path, Tara
Tara Boyce: thank you
Ramya: • Pratyaksha: Contact between senses and sense objects: takes place in the gross body
srini_sadhu: I see, I hear, I touch, I smell, I taste
Debi GLSDM: Native Americans have a thing they do where you put something in center of circle of people and all see it diff/ from their sight their dif interpretations of and life exp. we all see dif we all perceive according to our experience thus all see dif.
srini_sadhu: That's interesting Debi!
Ramya: • Prakasha: Emotion, Feeling, Intuition: takes place in the causal body. Go beyond the mind into intuitive experience.
Debi GLSDM: then when you through an emotion in center it gets even harder to agree
srini_sadhu: Pratyaya: Conception in the mind without using any of the sense organs: takes place in the subtle body
srini_sadhu: Pratyaksha (senses), Pratyaya (mind), Prakasha (intuition)
srini_sadhu: As we go through the day, which of these forms of perception dominate?
Ramya: Thanks Debi - it is very interesting!
BharatiMa: debi-that goes back to our original discussion about judging others actions
Ramya: For me its mostly senses and mind
BharatiMa: sri-i use all 3
Debi GLSDM: Intuition is something that has to be worked with for me. we all have feelings ( intuition) about things but not clear sometimes if its our thought( worries) true intuition telling me something.\
Cynkay Morningsong: Srini - I think that depends on whether we are acting on impulse or stopping to consider our options before acting
henny_v_i: yes, mind is certainly busy constantly
BharatiMa: deb-good question
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says all three are in operation at the same time
Debi GLSDM: agree
srini_sadhu: We look at a flower with our senses, note that its is a flower with our find and feel its beauty with intuition
BharatiMa: how do we distinguish between worries/mind and intuition?
Cynkay Morningsong: f: for me it is the mind consistently being placed in spaces and situations in the corporate world where dark energy seems to exist. However, I go back to my office and bow before Maa and know life is good right where I stand.
vish108weshwar: i work with subtle perceptions many times. For example, how did someone react to my question? Am I being clear? Was I too harsh?
Debi GLSDM: me too
Cynkay Morningsong: ditto
Ramya: We can ask Swamiji Debi's question -- are all feelings intuition? When do we know what is a "true" intuition? is that ok, Debi?
srini_sadhu: While all three are operating at the same time, we want to move a state where only intuition is working. That is the goal according to Kashyapa Muni
Debi GLSDM: sure
srini_sadhu: Become absorbed in the feeling
Debi GLSDM: good goal
srini_sadhu: I was reading something interesting recently
srini_sadhu: We have thoughts and we have feelings
srini_sadhu: thoughts are dry and shallow and transient
BharatiMa: sri-if they are all at the same time do we need to distinguish between them?
srini_sadhu: feelings are rich, deep and strong and enduring
srini_sadhu: In meditation, we want to feelings to be prominent and not thoughts
srini_sadhu: To make that happen, we have to cultivate feeling for our beloved through out the day
vish108weshwar: don't we want to "go beyond" all impulses?
Ramya: Our goal is to make our mind still and be absorbed in prakasha (illumination).
srini_sadhu: Bharati-Ma - that's good question,
vish108weshwar: remember the story of how to dye a white cloth permanently and make it color fast?
BharatiMa: ram-so intuition and illumination are the same?
Debi GLSDM: so would you as that being intuit at all times is equal to being in God at all times connected hot line
Ramya: Prakasha means "light" or "illumination" - and Swamiji says it takes place in the causal body. That emotion, feeling, intuition.
BharatiMa: Debi-you clarified my statement thanks
vish108weshwar: Shree Maa always says and does the perfect things
srini_sadhu: When you have strong emotion or feeling towards an object, it is easy to pay attention and from that we get illumination
Debi GLSDM: oh i see what you’re saying
vish108weshwar: so, if I love Maa, and pay total attention to Her, I will become illumined?
srini_sadhu: You will understand Her more and from that understanding comes illumination. My two cents
BharatiMa: rem-so how do we start living in intuition more?
Debi GLSDM: yes how
srini_sadhu: How???
vish108weshwar: To me, since She is beyond understanding, beyond the mind, automatically I will be carried to illumination. my 2 cents
Ramya: Swamiji says we can come to this state of absorption through karma, bhakthi, jnana and dhyana.
Debi GLSDM: keeping a journal of experiences with intuition may make it become clearing when able to look back at notes
Ramya: karma (action), bhakti (devotion), jnana (knowledge), dhyana (concentration)
srini_sadhu: Choose something to love and think about your beloved throughout the day, would be one way
Debi GLSDM: meditation seems a good road to these
srini_sadhu: Take your Beloved with you to your work place, in your car, and on your vacation
Ramya: Offer your actions to your beloved deity or Guru.
kaliananda_saraswati: I tend to agree with you Vish. You loose your mind to Her.
srini_sadhu: Now, I love 100 things and so there is no intensity of feeling towards any one of them
srini_sadhu: Does that make sense?
vish108weshwar: please explain
srini_sadhu: I like my car, my dress, my stereo, my food, and God
srini_sadhu: What if I just loved God
Debi GLSDM: But your love for Guru would be strongest and good focal point
Debi GLSDM: in comparison to 100 things
vish108weshwar: i agree, use discrimination and focus only on those things which will take you to illumination
Ramya: We need to find actions what take us to absorption and actions that don't -- for example, working in silence helps me to be more "meditative" all day long.
henny_v_i: He would give you your car, your dress, your food and all the other things, I think, Srini
srini_sadhu: Maa says, it is OK to desire a car, so long as you can make God the driver
Ramya: Maybe we can each find some actions/activity that would help us be more in the "intuitive" state this week and work on it? What do you think?
vish108weshwar: Swami says that by performing spiritual discipline, the things which are not for your best and highest, simply drop off. They come knocking at your door, but no one is home to answer
srini_sadhu: Find out for ourselves what do we love to do, have feeling for
BharatiMa: when i am cooking i am meditative. i chant mantras and cook and am in bliss
vish108weshwar: i love bharati's great food, but i am getting overweight
kaliananda_saraswati: I tend to agree with you Vish
and when you cook in bliss the meal is so sweet Bharatimaa
srini_sadhu: We are running out of time Guys. This has been Great!
BharatiMa: i want to find other actions where this is so
Cynkay Morningsong: what works for me is to love everything, that way I keep from getting attached to the specific things
BharatiMa: i will look for more this week
vish108weshwar: pray to Maa for guidance
srini_sadhu: nice Morningsong!
Ramya: Morningsong - Thanks, that is the best way to go.
srini_sadhu: So question for us all us to think about: how can we feel more love for what we do
Cynkay Morningsong:
vish108weshwar: there is a story, a saint saw a dead dog and said, what nice white teeth it has
Tara Boyce: Feel the love and grace as much of the time as possible
BharatiMa: last week we talked about doing mantras for each of our actions
Ramya: Maybe we can make a list of activities where we feel meditative (e.g. cooking for Bharati) and add to this list this week - and share techniques that help us add to this list with each other!
henny_v_i: yes, I love that story, Vish
BharatiMa: i haven't done that yet but will work on it this week
srini_sadhu: Vish you can post that on the club?
vish108weshwar: we must share our love and help each other thru the week on the daily club. it really helps me
Debi GLSDM: yes
BharatiMa: yes i have been remiss
srini_sadhu: OK-dokey
vish108weshwar: yes
BharatiMa: thank you everyone. Jai Maa Namaste
vish108weshwar: Jai Srini, Jai ramya
Tara Boyce: Jai Maa!!!
kaliananda_saraswati: Jai maa sweet ones. Great class as usual.
Cynkay Morningsong: Jai Maa
vish108weshwar: you all are the best family
Debi GLSDM: Jai Maa
Ramya: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
vish108weshwar: thanks for sharing
srini_sadhu: Adieu, Adieu, To you and you and you!
vish108weshwar: so long, farewell
henny_v_i: thank you all for the inspiration, Jai Maa! Thanks Srini and Ramya. Auf wiedersehen, goodbye
vish108weshwar: i hate to leave
Debi GLSDM: me too
srini_sadhu: Only love Vish
Debi GLSDM: love
vish108weshwar: only love
srini_sadhu:
vish108weshwar: all you need is love
srini_sadhu: and breakfast
Debi GLSDM: yea
vish108weshwar: enjoy some sweets
Debi GLSDM: mm
vish108weshwar: She loves you, yea yea yea
srini_sadhu: take care, jai Maa!