srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: We will discuss Sutras 7, 8, 9
srini_sadhu: It appears to me that each Sutra contain everything you need to organize and live one's life
Sarada Devi: yes
srini_sadhu: Sutra 7 is about Maya
srini_sadhu: Swamiji provides different interpretations of this Sutra
srini_sadhu: I will give two of them
srini_sadhu: One who cries for Maya attains to the attainment of all attainments.
srini_sadhu: or
srini_sadhu: When one attains the radiance of Maya, one attains to the attainment of all attainments.
Sarada Devi: Hrim !
srini_sadhu: What is this Maya?
srini_sadhu: Any thoughts?
Sarada Devi: long time ago i used to not like Maya - thought that it was the delusion to be overcome - now i see it is the divine mother in her play - i accept the Tantra idea the most !
srini_sadhu: Thanks Usha!
vish108weshwar: i too like Divine Mother's play.
srini_sadhu: We feel pain sometimes, pleasure some times, is that an illusion or the Divine Mother, what do you think?
Sarada Devi: i can see all three meanings, but was never so at ease with Sri Shankaracharya's view
srini_sadhu: Just for clarity,
srini_sadhu: WE have three levels of Maya
srini_sadhu: Maya of Sankhya: Illusion that obscures reality; Many looking at the many
srini_sadhu: Maya of Tantra: Embodiment of the Divine Mother; Many looking at the One
Sarada Devi: both -
srini_sadhu: Maya of Vedanta: One infinite consciousness in harmony with its own self; One
srini_sadhu: How should we think about maya as we go through our lives?
vish108weshwar: who is feeling the pain, and who is causing the pain?
Sarada Devi: as the bewitching beloved Divine Mother - who ensnares all of us in her play
vish108weshwar: as the loving divine mother who frees us from all suffering
Sarada Devi: only the part ( ego ) that imagines itself as separate
srini_sadhu: Is this world an illusion? What do you think?
vish108weshwar: She will free us as long as we are consciously working towards freedom, but will slap us to wake us up if we are getting off the path?
Sarada Devi: and is in both the pleasure and the pain and again in neither
Sarada Devi: yes and no - impermanent !
srini_sadhu: As is our thoughts so is our reality
Sarada Devi: like the moon, always changing
vish108weshwar: our perception of the moon changes, but it is ever the same
Sarada Devi: yes
srini_sadhu: How do we move from the Maya of Sankhya to the Maya of Tantra?
Sarada Devi: the moon !
vish108weshwar: can we ever be separate from Maa?
Sarada Devi: different levels of perception
srini_sadhu: When we breathe in we are breathing in God, if we remember that every second, we will never be separate
vish108weshwar: so how do we move from illusion to union?
srini_sadhu: The other day, Swamiji said that from time to time, it is good to stop, close our eyes and remember that we are doing Divine Mother's work, or God's work
Sarada Devi: we must remember to Stop!
vish108weshwar: yes, i heard that too. However, sometimes i cannot even remember to stop and think about God
vish108weshwar: srini, you will have to call me every hour to remind me, and vice versa
Sarada Devi: if we sincerely practice our sadhana there will grow a reminding factor
vish108weshwar: i like that idea
Sarada Devi: one can observe this in oneself
vish108weshwar: i found that these discussions and evening classes, and puja all help me. But as soon as i start work, i get enveloped in it
srini_sadhu: I think the key is satsangha with holy souls and sankalpa shakti to remember
srini_sadhu: A friend told me this about what Maa said on how to remember
Sarada Devi: yes this is the way maya takes us - we forget 1
srini_sadhu: Maa said, the key is Satsangha
vish108weshwar: yes, i believe
Sarada Devi: thank you all for helping me to remember!
srini_sadhu: When we have Satsangha, and talk about God and spirituality, it elevates us
srini_sadhu: This feeling lingers and then goes away
srini_sadhu: Till we have Satsangha again
vish108weshwar: i found the "conscious living" we have been practicing, and inserting mantras when we get into a bad mood, really helped
Sarada Devi: the interaction of effort and grace
srini_sadhu: That's great Vish
srini_sadhu: How about discussing Sutra 8?
Sarada Devi: Jai Srini!
srini_sadhu: This one is cryptic
vish108weshwar: i remember Swami said the other night, that once one has realized one's true nature, then there is no "death". The soul just consciously moves onto another body, no forgetfulness and remembering anymore.
srini_sadhu: It says: by cutting bondage we attain the eternal Siva
srini_sadhu: Thanks Vish!
srini_sadhu: What is this bondage? How are we bound? What are these limitations?
srini_sadhu: I eagerly await your insights!
Sarada Devi: the fetters that bind us
vish108weshwar: the ego seeks to separate us from everyone else, in order to enjoy his own greatness and individuality
srini_sadhu: Is ego like pride?
Sarada Devi: all the negative attachments we are trying to overcome - i.e. greed , anger jealousy etc
vish108weshwar: pride is part of ego
Sarada Devi: we need to purify the ego so it will become the ego of the devotee
srini_sadhu: The list is long, where do we start. What do you think Karen, Lokesh?
vish108weshwar: ego of the devotee?
Sarada Devi: this is a quote from Sri Ramakrishna
lokesh lokesh: i am bound by attachment to senses, habitual behavior, mantra, meditation to lessen these attachments
Sarada Devi: he said sometimes he did not want to become sugar - he wanted to taste sugar - for this we need a pure ego
forall10q: I'm listening.
Sarada Devi: sugar
vish108weshwar: i step back from my union with my love in order to say I love you?
srini_sadhu: We want to be free to do some things but are unable to do it, is that a form of bondage?
Sarada Devi: yes - that is how i understand it
vish108weshwar: do you mean that my emotions and pride prevent me from performing fruitful action?
srini_sadhu: Or could be our habitual tendencies like Lokesh was saying
Sarada Devi: when i am "asleep" i cannot put that space of awareness between the emotion and the expression - so no fruitful action
srini_sadhu: Our habits bind us to behave in a certain way and we have no control over our behavior
vish108weshwar: how about when i am awake and conscious? Surely i want to be free from bondage, but cannot be
srini_sadhu: Could you explain Vish?
Sarada Devi: if i were awake and conscious there would be no more bondage
vish108weshwar: i obviously do not want to do dumb things, but i do even as i am thinking i should not. How strange
srini_sadhu: What can we do to loosen the hold of our unconscious habits?
vish108weshwar: who else has this problem and how do you get out of it?
Sarada Devi: back to sadhana - satsangh etc.
lokesh lokesh: replace our undesirable habits with positive habits
Sarada Devi: Vish i think everyone incarnated has this problem
vish108weshwar: i agree with sadhana, and satsangh, but i still get frustrated and wish it did not make mistakes
Sarada Devi: i sure do
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says that when we maintain awareness of our true being, our true existence, our illumination is a beautiful contribution and we attain the wisdom and bliss of Siva.
vish108weshwar: understand that point of view. Just have to work harder
srini_sadhu: From time to time, we stop what we are doing, pause and reflect on the wise counsel of the sages
vish108weshwar: thanks srini
vish108weshwar: wise counsel srini baba
srini_sadhu: I have also read that, the mind is hard to control but the body and speech are easier to control
srini_sadhu: So focus on the easier things first.
srini_sadhu: Baby steps
srini_sadhu: Baby steps
Sarada Devi: pray to Maa to show us her true face and keep us in the palm of Her hand always
vish108weshwar: in the book it says: let's first start by cultivating enough resistance so that when we fall down, we pop right back up again
srini_sadhu: Thanks Usha! Mirabai sang, "Lord even if You forget me, let me not forget You."
Sarada Devi: Yes - please Maa hear our prayer!! We are quite powerless without you!
srini_sadhu: Sutra 7 is about Maya and Sutra 8 is about our limitations, bondage
srini_sadhu: They remind us to reflect on what are our illusions and limitations and urge us to transcend them to attain the highest goal.
vish108weshwar: in the book it says: as you practice tapasya, you become less attached to thought. your thoughts stay the same, they do not change, you just become less attached to them. just hearing that is a huge relief
srini_sadhu: Thanks Vish!
srini_sadhu: Sutra 9?
vish108weshwar: yes
srini_sadhu: The conflict between wisdom and ignorance makes great confusion.
srini_sadhu: So this Sutra says.
srini_sadhu: Do you feel this conflict? How would you describe it? Examples?
Sarada Devi: i want to do it - i know i should not - conflict - possibility of tapasya
srini_sadhu: Let us think of a specific example and go deeper.
srini_sadhu: Ideas?
lokesh lokesh: conflict between my intellectual understanding of the message of the sages and my ego desires
srini_sadhu: Lokesh could you give us an example?
lokesh lokesh: selfless service versus self interest
srini_sadhu: Great!
srini_sadhu: Dishes are piled up in the kitchen and I walk away. I feel conflicted? How do I resolve this?
Sarada Devi: the Native Americans call it feeding the lamb or the wolf
srini_sadhu: What is the wise action?
lokesh lokesh: go back and wash dishes
srini_sadhu:
Sarada Devi: this will give us a certain energy
Sarada Devi: next time it will be just a tiny bit easier
lokesh lokesh: and say mantra at same time
Sarada Devi: we get up quicker like Vish said
srini_sadhu: That's nice Usha! Thanks Lokesh!
vish108weshwar: remember that doing the dishes as service to divine mother, who is in every form?
vish108weshwar: service
srini_sadhu: I will try to remember all of this.
Sarada Devi: and the burning away of impurities by that tapasya - baby steps
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says: All through our lives, within ourselves are forces of selfishness, asuras and forces that awaken consciousness, the devas.
srini_sadhu: The conflict between them causes great confusion, until we become one with light.
vish108weshwar: we should a e mail each other at random times each day with sweet words of support: i love you all"
srini_sadhu: Jai Vish!
Sarada Devi: Thank you all my dear brothers and sisters!
srini_sadhu: What is one thing from our discussion in the last one hour that we can carry with us for the next week?
Sarada Devi: satsangh
srini_sadhu: Become more selfless
vish108weshwar: be conscious in every actions: think of serving Maa doing everything
srini_sadhu: Once a day, I will wash and dry all the dishes
vish108weshwar: i await your e mails of support this week. i really hope to see one pop up in the midst of my day, and i will send to you all if you give me your addresses
srini_sadhu: If we find something nice and interesting we can send each other emails
vish108weshwar: i have a great one right now to send to all, it will be sent tomorrow
srini_sadhu: Namaste Everyone! Thank you for being with us!
forall10q: thank you to all and to all a good night
lokesh lokesh: namaste all