srini_sadhu: Good Morning Marsha!
marsha lange: Good morning
srini_sadhu: Welcome Morningsong!
Cynkay Morningsong: Namaste' Srini
srini_sadhu: How are you all doing?
Cynkay Morningsong: I'm good... Francesca is here with me again this morning
srini_sadhu: Good Morning Francesca!
srini_sadhu: Welcome Henny!
marsha lange: Had a busy week at work and looking forward to our Saturday morning satsang
henny_v_i: namaste all!
srini_sadhu: I have been maintaining a diary of quotes on japa this week, so I really look forward to this week’s discussion on japa and pranayama
vish108weshwar: namaste
srini_sadhu: Welcome Vish!
vish108weshwar: Missed you all last week, computer problems
srini_sadhu: We have 3 sutras to cover: 10, 11, 12
srini_sadhu: It’s a lot of material, so we will probably discuss only parts of the text.
srini_sadhu: Are there some topics that anyone wants to spend more time on?
srini_sadhu: Please share!!
Cynkay Morningsong: I've been looking forward to discussing pranayam
henny_v_i: well, the combination of pranayama and japa still gives me trouble....keep losing count etc.
srini_sadhu: Me too! Let's share all our solutions!
srini_sadhu: Anybody anything?
henny_v_i: looking forward to that
srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
BharatiMa: Jai Maa Bharati has arrived
srini_sadhu: Welcome Bharati!
srini_sadhu: I bow down to all of you from my heart
henny_v_i: me too
srini_sadhu: I appreciate your being here to share in this satsang!
srini_sadhu: I propose the following:
srini_sadhu: We will spend a few minutes on Sutra 10 and spend most of the time on Sutra 11 and 12
srini_sadhu: What says you?
marsha lange: Srini - Fine with me
srini_sadhu: Sutra 10
srini_sadhu: Victory destroys pain
srini_sadhu: The pain here is the feeling of separation.
srini_sadhu: Could we all share how this pain manifests, to get a better handle on it?
henny_v_i: It manifests in the feeling that there is something missing...
Cynkay Morningsong: I really like the sentence that every victory destroys the sense of lack
srini_sadhu: This feeling of lack - can it be described?
henny_v_i: restlessness
marsha lange: Striving to fill what you feel is missing in your life. Not being grateful for what you have.
BharatiMa: the feeling of lack makes us feel unloved
BharatiMa: so we collect things to replace that love
Cynkay Morningsong: and separate from those who have
srini_sadhu: We are searching for a feeling of pure love that makes us feel secure and complete
srini_sadhu: Sutras 11 and 12 gives us two paths to gain victory over the feeling of lack
Ramya: In eternal union with our soul - our very own Divine Mother, with God.
Cynkay Morningsong: f: and the search for acceptance
srini_sadhu: The path of breath and the path of sound, and the two are related
srini_sadhu: Shall we discuss Sutras 11 and 12?
henny_v_i: yes
marsha lange: yes
vish108weshwar: yes
BharatiMa: yes
srini_sadhu: Sutra 11 says by perfecting our breath we become a source of peace
henny_v_i: that's something to strive for
srini_sadhu: Now people make a distinction between prana and breath, prana being more subtle. But we will use the two interchangeably.
kaliananda_saraswati has joined the conference.
srini_sadhu: Namaste Kali!
kaliananda_saraswati: namaste dear ones
srini_sadhu: Some terminology
Ramya: Namaste Kali and welcome! We are talking about Sutra 11.
srini_sadhu: Five types of Prana
srini_sadhu: Prana: inhalation
srini_sadhu: Apana: Exhalation
srini_sadhu: Samana: Equalizing Breath
srini_sadhu: Vyana: Involuntary expulsion
srini_sadhu: Udana: Bringing up breath
srini_sadhu: Questions?
Ramya: i don't understand what is equalizing breath and what it means to bring up breath
srini_sadhu: Each of five types of prana perform different functions
srini_sadhu: Prana controls breathing, inhalation
vish108weshwar: prana controls breathing? what do you mean?
srini_sadhu: Samana: equalizing breath is that prana in our body that aids in the harmonious functioning of the organs
vish108weshwar: in the book it says is equalizing breath, staying still
srini_sadhu: Each type of prana takes care of certain body functions. Prana which is the first type of prana is related to inhalation
srini_sadhu: Harmony, staying still
Ramya: thanks!
srini_sadhu: I am not sure about the distinction between udana and apana: both involve movement of breath from inside the body to outside the body.
srini_sadhu: Any ideas?
kaliananda_saraswati: the Devi Gita says
kaliananda_saraswati: udana is rising
kaliananda_saraswati: and vyana is defusing
srini_sadhu: Just to clarify, our whole body is permeated with prana, life-force, and different forms of prana do different things
kaliananda_saraswati: sorry apana is exhalation
BharatiMa: srin Swami says to take a breath deep into the belly then let the breath come to the throat then say the mantra. is this udana?
marsha lange: I thought that since everything seems to travel downward in the body that when you meditate and such you didn't want the thoughts to travel only in a downward fashion.
Ramya: Yes - Bharati ma, i also thought that udana is movement of breath upwards inside the body -- Maybe we can ask Swamiji for clarification!
henny_v_i: perhaps it means that type of breathing where you imagine you take the air up along the spinal column so it seems to go up?
srini_sadhu: I will seek clarification on this.
henny_v_i: ok, thank you
srini_sadhu: Now we can just focus on the actual breathing process.
vish108weshwar: so how does breath take us to subtle states?
srini_sadhu: This has three stages: inhalation, retention, and exhalation
srini_sadhu: Vish, could we discuss this in a few minutes?
vish108weshwar: i not ice if i breath evenly, i feel calmer. how?
vish108weshwar: yes
srini_sadhu: There are two practices where being aware of these three stages is important.
srini_sadhu: One is japa and the other is chanting
srini_sadhu: Chanting a scripture
srini_sadhu: Could some one describe how we regulate our breathing when chanting a scripture?
henny_v_i: take a breath, chant a verse, take a breath, chant the next and keep this up till you are finished
vish108weshwar: when inhaling, we also chant a mantra
Ramya: henny - that is so clear! so we are exhaling when we chant?
marsha lange: Would this also include keeping the meter?
henny_v_i: well, that is what I do. I chant out loud, so you can't help exhaling
vish108weshwar: yes, we must keep the meter too
vish108weshwar: the structure of the chandi verses is designed for regular pranayama
srini_sadhu: So the mantra (om aim hrim klim chamundayai vicche, om namah shivaya, or your guru mantra, or any other mantra) is pronounced inauidbly for the duration of the inhalation
Ramya: What is meter and how do we keep it?
kaliananda_saraswati: inhale with the meter, hold the breathe while repeating the scripture and exhale while repeating the scripture?
henny_v_i: I often forget the mantra when inhaling, because thoughts about the verse before or after creep in...
vish108weshwar: srini, so clear
vish108weshwar: yes, i forget sometimes, that is the discipline
srini_sadhu: Digression: Meter refers to the number of syllables per verse. In general you don’t worry about meter, if you are inhaling the mantras and pronouncing all the syllables of the verse
BharatiMa: when i do japa sometime i inhale with the mantra and exhale with the mantra
srini_sadhu: You will be chanting in the same meter throughout the scripture
srini_sadhu: Bharati, hold on to that thought
srini_sadhu: You can chant the same mantra multiple times when inhaling depending on how long your inhalation is
Ramya: So -- when we inhale we say a mantra (in our mind), then we say a verse when we exhale - do we retain our breath?
srini_sadhu: That is a good question! Any one knows?
Ramya: Kali said something about it before...hey Kali, take away our r darkness!
kaliananda_saraswati: not sure of the question Srini
srini_sadhu: Ok
henny_v_i: listening to you all reciting at the fire, I don't think you retain the breath, since you're going very fast
vish108weshwar: i do not retain a breath in the chandi. too fast, inhale a mantra, exhale the verse
srini_sadhu: Normally, we inhale, retain, and then exhale. This is when we do pranayama
kaliananda_saraswati: What is the question?
henny_v_i: with japa, I retain
srini_sadhu: The question is do we retain our breath between inhaling the mantra and chanting the verse (exhalation). In general, we pause; but should this pause be deliberate and long?
vish108weshwar: in the scripture, it does not state that we retain during chanting. during japa, we do retain. there is a formula
vish108weshwar: in the scripture it does not state there is a pause between inhale and exhale while chanting
kaliananda_saraswati: for me it is a deliberate pause between verses to get the breath back. Say two verses to the breath ... pause for breath and continue
srini_sadhu: Actually, Swamiji says that the puraka (inhalation) and khumbaka (retention) grow proportionate to the rechaka (chanting of the verse), page 85 second Para
vish108weshwar: i do not understand that with my experience
srini_sadhu: I can ask Swamiji this.
gauri_108 has joined the conference.
srini_sadhu: The second situation is japa
marsha lange: pg 85 paragraph # is what I strive for make you mantra the breath of life
srini_sadhu: Sorry Marsha, where is this?
marsha lange: pg 85 para # 2
marsha lange: Anata and ajapa
srini_sadhu: That's Sutra 12, Marsha, we will get there shortly.
vish108weshwar: srini, i get it now, the more breath we breath in with a mantra, the more we can hold-retain, then the more we can breath out with the mantra. it grows automatically as we practice
srini_sadhu: Different editions, different page numbers
marsha lange: Sorry I must have a different edition
srini_sadhu: Thanks Vish
srini_sadhu: A few things about japa with pranayama
srini_sadhu: Back to what Bharathi was saying
vish108weshwar: could we discuss the formula of breathing for japa?
srini_sadhu: The classical formula is 1:4:2
srini_sadhu: I have struggled with this and I am still struggling. Any ideas, thoughts from your experience?
Ramya: Inhalation -- say mantra one time. Retain - say mantra 4 times exhalation - say mantra 2 times. We can do the whole thing inaudibly
kaliananda_saraswati: it seems easier to breath if the back is erect when sitting
vish108weshwar: when you begin the practice, do not force or try too hard, just be easy. it will come automatically over time, but must begin easily
vish108weshwar: i agree kali, Swami too says this is best
srini_sadhu: One thing Swamiji told me to try is 1:1: 1
Ramya: It really helps me to do japa this way - it is easier to concentrate. also it is fun to count with both hands!
henny_v_i: one thing: it helps me, when counting on the fingers, to keep the numbers so that I come to the same place every time when starting anew; I do 3-12-6, which makes 21, but I count the last two i the same place, so I can start the inhalation at the beginning again (middle ring finger). I hope I make myself clear.
srini_sadhu: I found it easier to focus
Ramya: Yes Henny! Thanks for sharing!
gauri_108: I sometimes have trouble, with this, but when i did it while listening to Maa singing Navarna mantra, IT WAS SOOO EASY!
srini_sadhu: How about taking a sankalpa to do 10 minutes of japa everyday this week?
Ramya: The main point is - when we inhale we say name of God and when we exhale we say name of God - As we keep doing it we strive to get an intuitive understanding of what we are chanting and feel God's presence -- Eternally!
vish108weshwar: nice ramya
gauri_108: fabulous -- I’m in
Ramya: Maa said that if we do 10 minutes in morning using 1:4:2 we will have calmness throughout the day.
vish108weshwar: Swami says after some time, the mantra goes by itself automatically, eternally
srini_sadhu: The other thing is I found that if I do japa without a mala for a predefined time, I am able to focus better on the mantra.
marsha lange: yes beautiful Ramya
BharatiMa: Sutra says mantra controls the mind by expanding the concept which the mind is conceiving
kaliananda_saraswati: yes, i will
srini_sadhu: Otherwise I am waiting for the mala to get over
Ramya: Count me in for 10 minutes Japa-sankalpa!
BharatiMa: if we are expanding the concept of god then what could be better
vish108weshwar: yes, i will join our sankalpa too
Cynkay Morningsong: I'm in
marsha lange: yes I will join the sankalpa
henny_v_i: and me
gauri_108: that is so true, srini, if i listen to the cd then i don't worry about counting
Cynkay Morningsong: f: me too
BharatiMa: calmness throughout the day is what i would love-so count me in
Ramya:
srini_sadhu: Let us share this sankalpa on the Yahoo Group!
srini_sadhu: We are running out of time, could we discuss more closing thoughts on pranayama and discuss sutra 12 next week?
henny_v_i: it would be great if more people joined in
vish108weshwar: yes, yes yes
marsha lange: Yes
henny_v_i: ok
kaliananda_saraswati: ok
BharatiMa: great idea
gauri_108: ok by me
srini_sadhu: One nice thing I read
Cynkay Morningsong: ok
srini_sadhu: Before we start Japa, it is good to pray to our Ishta that there will be no obstacle to our japa
Ramya: i read a quote from Sarada Maa - something like this -- God gave us fingers, so we can count when we do japa!!!
Ramya: There is a description of how to count using fingers when doing Japa in FAQ section in shreemaa.org - if anybody wants to know!
gauri_108: how do you know who your Ishta Deva is?
Ramya: How do you know whom you love? Your heart tells you
srini_sadhu: Good question, Gauri. Right now I love them all. Hanuman, Ganesh, Devi, Krishna, Rama.
Ramya: We can also pray to Guru to make our Japa smooth! They always help, isn't it?
gauri_108: me, too!
marsha lange: It does for me Ramya
kaliananda_saraswati: Kali Maa is my sweetheart
vish108weshwar: for me, there is a certain force which draws me, compels me to worship. but, as Swami has said, different forces will compel you at different times
srini_sadhu: Thank you all. I pray that we feel close to God as we strive to do 10 minutes of japa everyday!
Ramya: They are all the same - appearing in many beautiful forms - whichever form we love at that moment - that is our Ishta! At Hanuman puja time - it is Hanuman, when we dress Gopal, it is the little butter thief - when we sing Chandi - it is our Mother!
srini_sadhu: Please share your thoughts and ideas on how we can maintain our awareness while doing japa, on the Yahoo Group!
marsha lange: Jai Ma and thanks Srini and thank you to everyone for another great satsang. Blessings
BharatiMa: ram-said so beautifully thank you
vish108weshwar: nice ramya. i will join you all in posting that we are doing this on the club daily
Ramya: That is my understanding, Gauri - from asking Swamiji this question! He said to strive to be with God, in whatever name and form!! hope this helps you as it helped me!
gauri_108: jaaaaaaaaai Maa
kaliananda_saraswati: Thanks and Jai Maa. Blessed week to all.
srini_sadhu: I thank you for your patience and love.
vish108weshwar: jai maa jai swami, love vishweshwar
Cynkay Morningsong: f: namaste
BharatiMa: thank you everyone - good discussion. Jai Maa
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henny_v_i: Thank you all, God bless you
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Ramya: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
BharatiMa: thank you Maa and Swamiji for your Divine blessings and knowledge.
Cynkay Morningsong: Namaste'
BharatiMa has left the conference.
Ramya has left the conference.
Cynkay Morningsong: thank you
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