srini_sadhu: We had planned on discussing Sutras 10,11, and 12, but in the interests of time we will probably discuss only sutras 10 and 11. How does that sound?
lokesh green: sounds good
forall10q: fine!
Janitri Rybacki has joined the conference.
srini_sadhu: Welcome Janitri!
Janitri Rybacki: hello! Jai Maa.
lokesh green: read them once
srini_sadhu: Very good!
srini_sadhu: Janitri, we are planning to discuss Sutras 10 and 11
Janitri Rybacki: thank you
vish108weshwar has joined the conference.
vish108weshwar: Jai Maa, Namaste all brothers and sisters
Janitri Rybacki: hi, Vish! Namaste
srini_sadhu: Namaste Vish!
srini_sadhu: It would good if we go deep into one sutra, to the extent possible.
srini_sadhu: So please share all your wisdom and questions as we go along!
srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: Sutra 10 is brief but cryptic
Sarada Devi has joined the conference.
srini_sadhu: Namaste Usha!
srini_sadhu: Sutra 10 says: Victory destroys pain
Sarada Devi: Jaya - to All!
srini_sadhu: Victory over what is the question?
vish108weshwar: what kind of pain? One devotee says pain because he did not finish Ph.D., another says he misses being in the Army?
Sarada Devi: i can only ever have victory over myself (little self or ego )
srini_sadhu: Swamiji describes this pain as the pain of separation or the lack of completeness
vish108weshwar: my ego seems to bring me the greatest pain
Sarada Devi: something was wrong i did not get the writing
Sarada Devi: now seems ok
Janitri Rybacki: i don't think it has to be physical pain...it could be a pain that brings one to tears when thinking of missing another...pain of separation / completeness
vish108weshwar: separation from what? incomplete from what?
srini_sadhu: This pain of separation may actually be good since it makes you strive to become complete
vish108weshwar: suffering is next to Godliness?
Sarada Devi: the ego needs to separate from itself to become an individual - then it embarks on the journey back to itself
srini_sadhu: Swamiji described his experience of Samadhi a few days ago
Sarada Devi: i remember - dual samadhi
srini_sadhu: He said He felt like He was united with every atom of the Universe
srini_sadhu: Perhaps, till then we will feel separation, incompleteness, pain
Sarada Devi: it seems to me that everything we do is either avoiding that pain or engaging in actions to dull it
gauri_108 has joined the conference.
vish108weshwar: then what is our highest mission, our goal as human beings? why have we been born?
srini_sadhu: Usha, could you explain "actions to dull it"
Sarada Devi: pleasures that act as panacea
srini_sadhu: Thanks Usha!
gauri_108: highest mission is self realization, says Ramakrishna
srini_sadhu: I was reading about Shivapuri Baba
srini_sadhu: He lived in solitude for 40 + years
srini_sadhu: He says "Once you find God, all problems are solved"
Sarada Devi: a great teacher once said to me " don't ask why " , Vish
vish108weshwar: ok, then what did he say to do?
gauri_108: great, let's find God!
vish108weshwar: i think it is important to know why we were born, so we can make a plan to achieve our ultimate goal, whatever it is.
Sarada Devi: to persist in sadhana and it will be revealed - so much is beyond the ordinary mind - that’s what i understood . vish
Janitri Rybacki: vish, I’ve been wondering today, why here, why be born. all i can say is that this journey is good with all of you.
vish108weshwar: beyond the ordinary mind, that is the key to this whole discussion. if we stay in the ordinary mind, and the ego, we are lost, separate, lacking wholeness
srini_sadhu: I have struggled with this question and always find myself at a dead end (Why was I born)
vish108weshwar: if we stay in the ordinary mind, we are lost
srini_sadhu: I find Usha's answer helpful. Sadhana and faith and persistence,
Sarada Devi: yes - and that does not mean not to ask why - since the mind always does it anyway
gauri_108: we are born to finish off old karma and hopefully not add anymore
srini_sadhu: Swamiji gave us a very nice positive path.
vish108weshwar: the ego will certainly keep us busy asking why, why, why. that is its job, to keep us separated, so it can keep control
gauri_108: and find our way Home
srini_sadhu: Love the Guru, after awhile, you will love your Sadhana, and after a while you will love God
Sarada Devi: but to realize that the real solutions are sooo vast so infinite and beyond thought
vish108weshwar: according to this sutra, the greatest desire is to realize that we are one with God
srini_sadhu: Thanks Vish!
vish108weshwar: the thanks goes to Maa / Swami, they keep reminding us, less we forget and the ego takes us over and we goes to the movies rather than chant the Chandi
Sarada Devi: well - back to our baby steps from last week ??
Sarada Devi:
srini_sadhu:
srini_sadhu: Could we discuss Sutra 11?
vish108weshwar: great
srini_sadhu: This Sutra is about Pranayama and Japa
srini_sadhu: Could we first pool all our questions about the practice of pranayama and japa and weave the discussion around these questions
vish108weshwar: what is the value of pranayama?
srini_sadhu: Other questions?
srini_sadhu: or topics for discussion?
Sarada Devi: i have some - in breath out breath and holding during chanting
srini_sadhu: Vish, Sutra 11 answers your question.
gauri_108: what if holding breath feels uncomfortable?
srini_sadhu: It says: The attainment of perfection of breath or the life force gives one an abundance of peace; makes one a source of peace; makes one distribute peace.
vish108weshwar: sign me up
srini_sadhu: There are 3 areas for discussion
Sarada Devi: since prana is the connecting medium between the gross and subtle it is so important how do we hold during chanting and still say mantra
srini_sadhu: One is pranayama as a separate practice
Sarada Devi: i mean if we recite Chandi
srini_sadhu: Second, is Pranayama when doing japa of a single mantra
srini_sadhu: Third is pranayama when chanting a scripture
srini_sadhu: Shree Maa tells us that if we do pranayama as a separate practice everyday, you will become very peaceful and mind will be calm
srini_sadhu: She suggests using the classical formula 1:4:2
Sarada Devi: yes - single mantra is relatively easy - silently during in breath and holding - loud during out breath - but what about scripture ?
gauri_108: how do we do it as separate practice?
gauri_108: no mantra?
srini_sadhu: 1 for the in breath (puraka); 4 for the retention (khumbaka); 2 for outbreath (rechaka)
gauri_108: how does it differ from second?
Sarada Devi: same
srini_sadhu: I agree somewhat Usha.
Sarada Devi: during chanting of scripture there is no silent chanting ??
Sarada Devi: or can one add single mantra ??
Sarada Devi: tell us srini
srini_sadhu: Sometimes here at the Mandir we chant a Mantra like "Om Namah Shivayah" 10 times, and then take an in breath, then 10 mantras again. So we wont be using 1:4:2 then.
srini_sadhu:
srini_sadhu: Does that make sense?
Sarada Devi: so no silent chanting no holding /
Janitri Rybacki: yes, this makes sense
Sarada Devi: yes - i do that , too thanks
srini_sadhu: Yes Usha, except there might be a slight pause between the inhalation and the audible chanting
srini_sadhu: Back to Gauri’s question , what if we feel uncomfortable with holding the breath?
Sarada Devi: thanks - now what about scripture - especially when the meter changes
vish108weshwar: when we do the
srini_sadhu
srini_sadhu: Good q
vish108weshwar: when we do the Chandi with Swami, we usually do 2 verses to the breath
srini_sadhu: Good question, Usha, can we get to that in a few minutes, please
Sarada Devi: i would shorten the time and then slowly increase with practice?
vish108weshwar: we breathe in the mantra, pause, then chant the 2 verses, the take a breath in again while chanting a mantra
srini_sadhu: Yes Usha.
srini_sadhu: I think when we are in a group, we try to follow the leader to the extent possible.
srini_sadhu: When we are alone, we start with what we are comfortable and try to expand
vish108weshwar: the group energy certainly helps one exceed one's normal limitations
srini_sadhu: Back to pranayama as a practice, I want to mention a few things
srini_sadhu: Maa told me to do it after I finish my Yoga in the morning
Sarada Devi: vish - do you mean scripture - breathe in what mantra?
gauri_108: after asanas?
vish108weshwar: when Chandi we usually recite "om aim hrim klim Chamundayai Vicche" on the in breath
srini_sadhu: Also, while the classical 1:4:2 is the ideal, Swamiji told me to Start with 1:1:1. This is very comfortable and makes it easy to focus
srini_sadhu: Yes Gauri
gauri_108: that sounds manageable
Sarada Devi: thanks vish - so this mantra is interjected with each in breath ?
vish108weshwar: yes, each in breath
vish108weshwar: also. try to sit with back straight and head erect, in a good asana while doing pranayama
srini_sadhu: When chanting a scripture like Chandi Path, we inhale and chant the mantra inside for the duration of the in breath.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji clarified today via email that we also chant the mantra for retention and then chant the verses
Sarada Devi: so different scripture - different breath mantra - like the 15 syllable for the 300 names??
vish108weshwar: srini, i do not understand what swami meant?
gauri_108: that would be a long in breath!
srini_sadhu: Example:
srini_sadhu: In breath: Om Namah Shivaya; Retention: Om Namah Shivayah; Out breath: Chant 1 or 2 or 3 verses
Sarada Devi: single mantra once - in - hold for four mantras - the recite verse ?
vish108weshwar: understood, thanks
Sarada Devi: great , thanks
srini_sadhu: Usha, you can choose whatever Mantra you want: Your Guru mantra for example.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji has said, that thoughts get in during the in breath, so we counter the thoughts with the Mantra
Sarada Devi: oh - this is so great - thanks srini
srini_sadhu: For me the most effective way to counter thoughts has been to chant with samput and sitting as erect as possible
vish108weshwar: Usha, i have found this practice to be incredibly helpful when chanting a long scripture, gives more energy, focus, and quiets the mind
Sarada Devi: of course - concentration vish
vish108weshwar: when you are focusing on all this different techniques, you do not have time for thoughts
vish108weshwar: has anyone else tires this? How has it helped you?
srini_sadhu: The goal of all this is to feel love
vish108weshwar: i love you srini
Sarada Devi:
srini_sadhu:
Janitri Rybacki: love all too
Sarada Devi: what about when the meter changes all of a sudden
srini_sadhu: One thing that helps me is to visualize the deity to the extent I can, this also counters the thoughts
vish108weshwar: Maa had us doing pranayama and mantra with eyes closed and visualize your deity in third eye or heart while breathing and reciting mantra with breath
srini_sadhu: Usha, Swamiji when he chants alone keeps it consistent (# of verses per out-breath) when He chants alone.
Sarada Devi: that’s usually what i do - but scripture is different unless one knows it by heart
srini_sadhu: When in a group, for the longer verses, he reduces the number of verses per breath from 2 to 1.
srini_sadhu: So I think you just do what feels right without getting two uncomfortable,
Sarada Devi: srini do you mean syllables?
srini_sadhu: too uncomfortable
vish108weshwar: Usha, if you do 1 verse per breath, would that make it work?
srini_sadhu: I meant verses per out-breath Usha
srini_sadhu: The other thing to strive for is to increase the number of verses per out breath. I found that when I move from 2 to 3, you have no time for thoughts
Sarada Devi: so when meter changes it would just be longer or shorter /
srini_sadhu: Yes Usha.
srini_sadhu: In the Rudri for example, it is changing all the time. Nothing one can do about it
Sarada Devi: finally i got it that was always a confusion for me
srini_sadhu: Janitri, forall10q, Lokesh, How is it going?
Janitri Rybacki: fine. I’m learning here..
forall10q: Fine, I'm listening!
lokesh green: great to read and learn thanks
srini_sadhu: One more thing that Maa told us that might be helpful.
vish108weshwar: have you all tried these techniques? With japa, or chanting verses?
Janitri Rybacki: i haven't tried it as i have been ignorant
Sarada Devi: not with the single mantra in-between this is soo wonderful ! - can't wait to try it !
vish108weshwar: janitri: do you feel ready to give it a try? Other folks?
Janitri Rybacki: YES!!
lokesh green: will try tonight
srini_sadhu: Maa says to pray to Chandi Maa in the beginning of each Chapter.
vish108weshwar: great, can we all make a sankalpa to do it 10 minutes per day, japa? with you favorite mantra?
lokesh green: yes
Janitri Rybacki: okay...10 minutes for a start!
srini_sadhu: Shree Maa told us that sometimes it is good to do japa without mala for a certain period of time
Sarada Devi: pray to Chandi ma ? in our own way ?
vish108weshwar: great, me too; srini what do you mean?
srini_sadhu: Yes Usha!
srini_sadhu: I will share my own experience
gauri_108: do you have to be sitting down or can you do japa while doing other things?
srini_sadhu: When I use a mala, I am always checking whether i finished the mala
srini_sadhu: Today I used a timer, and set it to 10 minutes.
vish108weshwar: i understand, so count on fingers instead of mala?
vish108weshwar: oh, that is what you mean
srini_sadhu: I don’t even count,
vish108weshwar: i agree, when doing 10 minutes, no need to count number of mantras, just do for 10 minutes
srini_sadhu: Just my experience. Other folks would prefer mala
srini_sadhu: Gauri, I was reading about your question today.
srini_sadhu: This saint says something like this
srini_sadhu: He says its preferred to sit and do the japa in the same time and same place everyday. Especially same time.
vish108weshwar: to keep as simples as possible when beginning new technique, just sit upright, close eyes, take a breath in, say a mantra inside, when breath is full, hold, say mantra 4 times, then exhale saying mantra 2 times. do this for 10 minutes.
srini_sadhu: The mantra permeates the consciousness then.
srini_sadhu: Of course it is good to say the mantra as much as possible when we are doing our work
vish108weshwar: good example of this is the Temple at Mandir. HOLY SPOT FILLED WITH DIVINE VIBES
srini_sadhu: I am excited about this!
Sarada Devi: don't forget mantra right NOW!
Janitri Rybacki: me too!
srini_sadhu: A commitment to do japa for ten minutes every morning, no matter what
vish108weshwar: i am too, thanks for the knowledge. Great discussion.
srini_sadhu: Maa and Swamiji do japa first thing as soon as they get up (see Before Becoming this)
vish108weshwar: the goal is the mantra goes all the time, by itself. Just think, all actions permeated by the mantra. What a goal. Let's get started.
Sarada Devi: go to sleep with mantra and wake up with mantra - then keep it by your side all day
vish108weshwar: it is most valuable possession, the greatest tool we have in our sadhu toolbox
Janitri Rybacki: You are all very inspirational 2night!
Sarada Devi: can't imagine life without it!
srini_sadhu: Please share your thoughts about japa and mantra on the club.
vish108weshwar: sometimes talking to clients on phone, when i say goodbye, i almost say: om Namah shivaya
lokesh green: thanks all namaste
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Sarada Devi: namaste All !
srini_sadhu: Pray to God for pure love in all our hearts
vish108weshwar: love to all, thanks for sharing your love and support. see you on the club nightly. don't be late. see you on - line live every night 6:30 pm with Swamiji chanting
Janitri Rybacki: namaste thank you!
forall10q: good night everyone and thank you
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vish108weshwar: good night srini, love
srini_sadhu: Jai Maa!
vish108weshwar: so long, farewell
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