srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: The Discussion Begins
srini_sadhu: Today's Topic is Chandi Path
srini_sadhu: We will try to cover the following topics:
srini_sadhu: A little history, Why do we chant Chandi, Meaning and Interpretation,
Ram Prasana: Awesome!
srini_sadhu: The Practice, What Maa and Swamiji say about Chandi
srini_sadhu: History
Ramya: The Chandi Path or Durga Saptashati or Devi Mahatmyam is Pauranic and comprises 13 chapters of the Markandeya Purana from #81 to #93.
srini_sadhu: It probably assumed its present form in 400 AD.
srini_sadhu: That's it on History. Any questions?
Alan: Do you say it's Puranic to distinguish it from what is Vaidika?
henny_v_i: yes, are there parts of other Puranas which are used/chanted in the same manner or is this practice unique?
srini_sadhu: Vedas came first, the Upanishads, Then Puranas, The Epics, Tantras, etc
Ram Prasana: Whats the difference between Puranic and Vaidika? Is it just source ... Puranas versus Vedas?
Kalachandra Chandra: The Puranas are history, ok?
srini_sadhu: Possible Henny. Ramayana is an Epic and not a Purana and is chanted all over India.
srini_sadhu: There are 18 Maha Puranas. Puranas are not just History
Ram Prasana: So is the Chandi Puranic in its origin?
srini_sadhu: Every Scripture Swamiji says has Rituals, Stories, Puja Paddhoti, and Philosophy
srini_sadhu: All packaged in them
srini_sadhu: It is part of Markandeya Purana so it is part of a Purana
srini_sadhu: What is Chandi Path about? Thoughts?
henny_v_i: Doesn't it say that it is the story of our own spiritual development/purification, the story of our own soul?
Ram Prasana: Stories about the Divine Mother... which includes slaying of Madhu and Kaitabha, Chanda and Munda, and basically the story of how the true self shines over the ego.
srini_sadhu: Yes Henny, nice.
Alan: Swamiji says in the introduction that all the characters in the Chandi are inside of us.
srini_sadhu: Thank you Prasana
Ramya: It is so beautiful to hear all this - it is a great reminder!
srini_sadhu: There are 3 episodes in the Chandi.
kaliananda_saraswati: It teaches us how to expand our awareness.
Ramya: As Prasanna said that Chandi Path at the gross level is the story of Divine Mother vanquishing asuras (evil forces)
Ramya: But it is more than that....it is as Henny said - story of our lives, Alan says all the characters are within us -- forces of goodness and negativity.
Ramya: That is the interpretation at the subtle level.
srini_sadhu: There are three episodes in the Chandi
srini_sadhu: In the first Episode, Divine Mother wakes up Lord Vishnu and helps Him conquer Madhu and Kaitaba
srini_sadhu: Madhu is Too Much and Kaitaba is Too Little
Ramya: The second episode -- Divine Mother vanquished Mahishasura (that is the name of the Demon). Swamiji translates Mahishasura as the Great Ego.
srini_sadhu: And the armies of the Great Ego as well!
Ramya: In this episode the Great Ego takes over the heavens - same as when we are filled with Ego we lose our "heaven
Ramya: our "heaven" - our "peace".
Ram Prasana: Why is Madhu Too Much and Kaitabha Too Little... and not the other way round? Any significance there?
Ram Prasana: Madhu was elder to Kaitabha?
srini_sadhu: This is a question about the root meaning of these Sanskrit words
srini_sadhu: I would have to ask Swamiji these questions
Ram Prasana: ok
srini_sadhu: In the third Episode, the Divine Mother destroys the armies of Sumbha (self conceit) and Nishumbha (self deprecation)
srini_sadhu: Among others She destroys Chanda (Anger) Munda (passion), Raktabija (seed of desire) and Dhoomralochana (sinful eyes)
Ramya: Summary - First episode we are swinging from "Too much" or "Too little" -- we have no balance in our life - we want balance - We pray to Mother
Ramya: Second episode - Great Ego is troubling us - fickleness, want of resolution, wander too and fro - we have no peace -- We pray to Mother
Ramya: Third Episode - Sometimes we feel "Self Conceit" and sometime "deprecation" Anger, passion, endless desire taunts us -- what can we do? We pray to Mother
Ramya: So as Alan said - all the characters are within us -- And Mother is within us too!!!
srini_sadhu: Would you like to share your thoughts about these episodes?
kaliananda_saraswati: Episode one to me shows how to contol the lower chakras. It also seems that until these lower chakras are still, we cannot really go on successfully.
Ram Prasana: Can u explain that Kaliananda?
kaliananda_saraswati: in the final verses
kaliananda_saraswati: of this chap, we see where the only place that these asuras can be defeated
kaliananda_saraswati: is a place where there is no desire
srini_sadhu: Swamiji yesterday at the Fire was saying that the lower chakras correspond to The Pashu or animal, the middle to the Sadhaka or Veera in us and the higher to the Deva or God in us
Ram Prasana: Ok
kaliananda_saraswati: the place of no desire was in the lap of consciousness
kaliananda_saraswati: this is where our animalistic desires are, the base chakras
henny_v_i: That's interesting, because the asura's threatened to kill Creative Consciousness. So it seems that we need balance and non-desire to become co-creators
srini_sadhu: Thanks Kali - that's interesting!
kaliananda_saraswati: desires but pure desires not the animalistic kinds that keep us dependent.
henny_v_i: yes, right, thank you
Ram Prasana: thanks!
kaliananda_saraswati: Jai Maa
Ramya: Maa says that in each chapter we can pray to Goddess to put away the negativities within us -- just as She is doing in the Chandi Path Recitation.
srini_sadhu: Let us share are experience with chanting the Chandi Path and how it has changed our lives
Ramya: So as we are reading each chapter - we feel that we are being cleansed within
srini_sadhu: We can then discuss the meaning of certain verses and what Maa and Swamiji say
srini_sadhu: What motivated you to chant the Chandi?
Alan: Seeing Shree Maa and Swamiji chant it.
kaliananda_saraswati: Swamiji's inspiration and love for Shree Maa. She says the Chandi is Her life and though I do not chant is often I enjoying doing so and especially Ep 2 and Chap 5
srini_sadhu: Me too Alan!
Ramya: Me too Alan!
srini_sadhu: The most tangible benefit for me is that I am now able to sit for longer without moving
Alan: five minutes more every month.
Ram Prasana: I am beginning to start the chanting of Chandi... just got through Kavacham, Argala and Keelakam...
srini_sadhu: Chanting everyday also has inspired me to memorize the verses and learn their meaning
Ram Prasana: Want to chant because of love for the Divine Mother
Ramya: Prasanna - Swamiji says that to get started - we can begin with Armor, Bolt, Pin
Ramya: Then we can add Sidha Kunjika Stotram, Devi Suktam
Ramya: And then Highest Meaning of the Goddess
Ramya: If we chant even just a few verses everyday, it becomes a beautiful part of us - our prayer to Divine Mother
kaliananda_saraswati: Srini, if one has taken sankalpa to chant say the Devi Gita for x-amount of time and due to life situation cannot chant the chandi along with the Gita can the sankalpa be changed in mid stream or does the cycle need to be completed?
srini_sadhu: I would say, we try our best. If we can’t, we pray for strength to complete. She is Patient Forgiveness. Main thing I try to do is whenever I am able to try to remember Her.
kaliananda_saraswati: I do that too but feel kind of guilty that i should be doing more
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says, Acknowledge, Reflect, Appreciate, and Forget
Alan: In the edition of Chandi Path I have, chapter 1 starts on page 119. Is the material before that, such as Bolt, Pin, etc., also from the Markandeya Purana? What is the relationship between those front parts and the 13 chapters of the Chandi proper?
srini_sadhu: Not all Alan. For example, the Ratri Suktham is a Hymn from the Rig Veda
Alan: If we chant Ratri Suktham by itself, are we still doing Chandi Path?
Ram Prasana: Srini, can u also explain Acknowledge, Reflect, Appreciate, and Forget with an example?
Ramya: The entire Chandi Path is a commentary on the Ratri Suktam and Devi Suktam.
srini_sadhu: You make a Mistake
srini_sadhu: You acknowledge that you made the mistake
srini_sadhu: You reflect on why you did
srini_sadhu: Then Appreciate and thank God that he gave you the wisdom
srini_sadhu: Then Move on
kaliananda_saraswati: Thanks for reminding of those words.
Ram Prasana: Thanks Srini.
Ramya: Alan - we can chant either parts of the Chandi Path book (e.g., kavach, Bolt, Pin) or a version called Seedha Path or the Entire Book - cover to cover.
srini_sadhu: The 700 verses are from the Markandeya Purana.
srini_sadhu: Alan my guess has time went on, various sadhus and saints composed the Kavach, Argala Stotram and they became a part of the tradition
henny_v_i: Do we have to do the full kushandika as in the book, or would it be ok to offer a light and a flower if we are pressed for time and then chant for instance the sapta shloki durga, as a kind of preparation for chanting the Chandi more regularly?
srini_sadhu: These - Armor, Bolt, etc. - prepare the devotee to chant the Chandi path, set the stage
Alan: When do we add "svaha" at the end of each verse, and when do we not add that? Does it have to do with sitting in front of the fire?
Ramya: Henny - my understanding is that when are students and learning, we can do parts - based on our time and capability. As time goes on, God will help us expand!
henny_v_i: Thank you
srini_sadhu: We do not add Swaha for the following alone: Kushandika, Kavach, Argala, and Kilakam and all the Dhyanams and the Navarna Vidhi. For everything else we add Swaha
Ramya: For example, Henny, we once did a group sankalpa in the Yahoo club, to chant one chapter every day for a week - that really helped me to get familiar with each chapter and later do all of them together.
srini_sadhu: In general we add Swaha when offering masala at the fire. If we are not at the fire, we do not add Swaha
henny_v_i: Yes, I remember! That was a great help!
srini_sadhu: In the Vaikrtikam Rahasyam, it says that if we chant anything , we should chant episode 2
srini_sadhu: That is chapter 2, 3, 4.
srini_sadhu: Is it OK so far?
Alan: It's a big topic for one hour.
kaliananda_saraswati: Yes, this is great
srini_sadhu: Yeah!
srini_sadhu: I have a question
Ram Prasana: yes
srini_sadhu: Can we ever defeat the Ego?
srini_sadhu: If so how?
Ram Prasana: With Grace, it is certainly possible...
kaliananda_saraswati: the big topic will make us into sadhu we well have to spend time going over thereafter and taking in what was said.
kaliananda_saraswati: then we will be come kali_sadu; henny_sadu
henny_v_i: the Ego: We can't annihilate him, but he can be taken up to heaven, where our Divine Mother sits
srini_sadhu: The Great Ego won the boon from Brahma that he can never be defeated by a human being or a God
Ram Prasana: Grace can be earned through tapasya... meditation, satsang, chanting, good actions, good thoughts etc, patience and most importantly faith (Shradha and Saburi..as Shirdi Sai taught)...
srini_sadhu: Which is why the escape clause was that He could be defeated by Divine Mother
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says, we cannot defeat the Ego, we can do only two things:
Ram Prasana: vow... that’s interesting!
srini_sadhu: Sit in one asan and Chant the Chandi
srini_sadhu: and 2. Pray to Her to awaken inside us and defeat the Great Ego
Ramya: We say to Mother "i cannot control my thoughts, my mind, my ego...i can only sit here and pray to You."
srini_sadhu: If She wills it will happen
Ramya: "I am your child, i am sitting still and calling to You. Please You take care."
Ramya: Maa said once -- Where will you find peace - in this world? In heaven? You can find in the Chandi. Chant it and give everything to Divine Mother. Find peace.
srini_sadhu: Shree Maa tells us that for each Chapter pray to Divine Mother to destroy the particular negativity of the chapter
Ramya: The Chandi Path is a very powerful tool for our personal transformation.
Ramya: Does this make sense?
Ramya: Julia, MVR?
srini_sadhu: Could we discuss a few special verses
judought: yes, yes, thank you, i'm listening--also, between messages, reading swamiji's answers to frequently asked questions.
Ram Prasana: go ahead
srini_sadhu: Chapter 1, Verse 6: Good Thoughts moved against the Destroyers of Worship in battle
srini_sadhu: and even though they were fewer in numbers, nevertheless Good thoughts were destroyed
srini_sadhu: What does this mean?
henny_v_i: You cannot conquer thinking by thinking
Ramya: In this verse we see that the King Surath (Good Thoughts) is defeated by his enemies (Destroyers of Wisdom) -- even though they were fewer in number.
Ramya: Thanks Henny, that is a very neat way to think about it!
henny_v_i:
kaliananda_saraswati: The impure thoughts are so commited to their cause that they neve give up, the moment we are caught napping they take control.
Ramya: Yes, Kali, sad but true!
srini_sadhu: A Sadhak has to be very careful. Maa says that if you have even one selfish desire you cant reach God. She told us this a few times
Alan: Uh oh.
Ramya: So no napping-on-the-job!
srini_sadhu: Hey no worries, we have Divine Mother on our side.
srini_sadhu: Here's another verse
judought: i just figure warts and all i give to her & tell her i love her
srini_sadhu: Chapter 8, Verse 41: When a drop of blood from his body touches the ground, another great thought with the same intensity is born in that very place
Ramya: Exactly Julia - She is our own and we are Hers!
srini_sadhu: This refers to Raktabija, the seed of Desire
srini_sadhu: Discussion?
Ramya: When a drop of blood from the seed of Desire falls on the ground - another desire of the same intensity develops.
kaliananda_saraswati: they are never contented.
Ram Prasana: Is it possible to completely annihilate desire?
srini_sadhu: If we had no desire, I would think we would have no body.
srini_sadhu: The existence of a body indicates we have desires
Ramya: We offer our desires at Mother's Feet and let Mother Kali eat them all up - just as She does in this chapter!
Ramya: By ourselves, we cannot annihilate them - as they come each time with same intensity. Only Mother can absorb them - and fill us with peace and love!
srini_sadhu: Prasana, desires are uncountable. We can do is make an inventory of some of them and combine our determination and prayers to become more pure
Ram Prasana: so we have to keep desires in control or is it necessary to get rid of them?
srini_sadhu: This is a good question.
henny_v_i: Perhaps we need to channel them into another direction; desires fuelled by Passion and Anger becoming dissolved into Pure Desire for God?
srini_sadhu: Fulfilling a desire will cause it to continue. We identify our impure desires and use different methods to "annihilate' them to the extent we are capable.
Ramya: Exactly, Henny - and the spiritual practices help us to do this!
srini_sadhu: Very nice Henny. Sri Ramakrishna says the same thing
Ramya: Chanting the Chandi helps us to offer our troubles, our thoughts and desires to Mother and help us to be open to Her love and grace in our lives.
henny_v_i: I have been reading him a lot
srini_sadhu: Instead of worrying about desires, we try to organize our life in such a way that we spend more time in siddhanatachar
srini_sadhu: Chanting the Chandi is one powerful tool in that direction
mvr6482: Is it possible (humanly) to realize God in one incarnation, if we follow all the virtues very strictly and remove all the negativities very thoroughly?
srini_sadhu: Then the desires will fall away.
Ram Prasana: everything is divine... all be it ego or desire come from Brahman. Then where is the need to get rid of them... may be they should be under control. Is my understanding OK?
kaliananda_saraswati: i think you are right
srini_sadhu: This will be along discussion Prasana, lets discuss this on the yahoo club - very good question
Ram Prasana: sure thanks
srini_sadhu: MVR, those are good steps, I humbly agree. But it depends on God's grace ultimately
srini_sadhu: Should we wind up?
srini_sadhu: Final Thoughts?
Ramya: If we have more questions on Chandi or chanting we can ask Swamiji on the yahoo club.
judought: thank you. May we grow in our love...
henny_v_i: Pranams to you all for a very interesting class! This is great, thank you Srini and Ramya for all your seva. See you next week.
Alan: Yes, thanks you.
Ramya: Thanks everybody! Namaste!
kaliananda_saraswati: this has been a wonderful class. Thank you.
Ram Prasana: Thanks!
srini_sadhu: Thank you all!
Ramya: Jai Maa!
mvr6482: I have heard the stories when I ws very young but the inner meanings unfold now. Thanks all. Namaste to all the divine souls in this class and my pranams to swamiji and Maa
Ram Prasana: Jai Maa