srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: Today is Sutra 2
srini_sadhu: It says: Kamabandham jivabhavam
srini_sadhu: Kama is Desire
srini_sadhu: Bandham means bound
srini_sadhu: Jivam: individual soul
srini_sadhu: Bhavam: His existence
srini_sadhu: The existence of every individual soul is bound by desires.
srini_sadhu: What does this mean to you all?
Alan: The word "bound" has a little bit of a negative connotation. Our desires restrict us.
marsha lange: Desire is the glue that binds us together as a family, as species it helps to continue our physical as well as spiritual life.
Cynkay Morningsong: that desires are like ropes that hold us in our bodies and in the world. Without these desires we would be free
Tara Boyce: I can relate this to my week, how my desires keep bringing me more work, and that takes away from time I could be giving to sadhana
kaliananda_saraswati: that our desire makes us attached to the lives we are living
srini_sadhu: I think of the soul as the center of my body and desires as the smoke or glue that covers it and hence it does not shine forth
Ramya: wow!!! So much food for thought! You are all so insightful
Tara Boyce: the keep us from the experience of god
srini_sadhu: Next Swamiji says that desires are of two kinds
srini_sadhu: Pure desires and Impure desires
srini_sadhu: It was nice to read your thoughts!
marsha lange: Desire also brings us to God isn't the seed letter Aim for Saraswati Devi "desire" ? Desire for knowledge of God?
Ramya: Marsha - that sounds like a pure desire!
Tara Boyce: sometimes it is easy for me to tell the difference, and sometimes not, any words of wisdom on how to discriminate?
srini_sadhu: Marsha, Swamiji says Goddess Saraswati is the Energy of Desire, Iccha Sakthi
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Namaste to all
srini_sadhu: The question is how can we differentiate Pure desires from impure desires?
Ramya: Marsha, i see Swamiji's translation of "Aim" as Creation, Rajo Guna, Energy of Desire, Mahasaraswati
Janitri Rybacki: Pure desires are ones that bring us closer to God realization...impure ones take us further away from the Goal.
marsha lange: Yes I also think of Saraswati Devi as attraction also.
Tara Boyce: that's right! the simple question to myself-will this action take me closer or further away from god? thank you janitri
srini_sadhu: What are examples of pure desires?
Alan: The desire for sadhana must be a pure desire.
srini_sadhu: I think of desire as a thought that arises and propels you to action
Ramya: Is desire to serve our Guru a pure desire?
Janitri Rybacki: yes, Seva for the Guru
Alan: Serving Guru is sadhana, and I think would be pure.
kaliananda_saraswati: It is through unfinished karma that we take a body (i think). Do we leave the body with the desire to return or is it an automatic process?
Tara Boyce: yes, but sometimes the desire for recognition slips into my mind...
marsha lange: Pure desire is time spent that doesn't seem as though it has been spent.
srini_sadhu: How does one feel when one has a pure desire?
Ramya: Kali - i heard that whatever desires are unfulfilled - we return in a body that will be a suitable vehicle to fulfill them.
Tara Boyce: full
srini_sadhu: I am trying to figure what would be cues that tell us "Hey that was pure desire"
kaliananda_saraswati: thanks Ramya.
marsha lange: In balance. Blame and praise are the same.
Ramya: Marsha, that is a beautiful way to think of it - stillness!
Tara Boyce: pure desires don't create more impure desires???
Janitri Rybacki: maybe a pure desire is felt in the heart chakra as a warmth and love..
kaliananda_saraswati: A pure desire makes one oblivious to any other energy but the loving feeling of that purity.
Cynkay Morningsong: I think they would be pure desires when we are not looking to them to fulfill some need within us, but to fulfill the need of others
srini_sadhu: That’s nice Janitri, Kalia!
Ramya: Thanks Morning song - Maybe we can use that as a cue "Is this desire for me or for the world?"
srini_sadhu: Another classification of desires: Sattvic, Rajasic, Tamasic
Ramya: Maa said "Leave Selfishness. Be Free"
Janitri Rybacki: doesn't Maa say to pray for the world? So, our desires for a healthier, happier world are serving Mother.
srini_sadhu: Yes Janitri. She has told me that twice to pray for the world when I sit for Cosmic Puja
Ramya: Yes Janitri - many times She says "Pray for the Universe"
Janitri Rybacki: thank U
srini_sadhu: How do we distinguish Sattwic from Rajasic and Tamasic as we live our daily lives?
Tara Boyce: by being aware of how we feel, is there a drive-rajasic, or feeling lazy-tamo, or pure desire to help, serve, worship-sattwa
srini_sadhu: Thank you Tara!
srini_sadhu: I have read that it is good to observe oneself throughout the day and see the nature of our desires
marsha lange: Rajasic would leave you with a hurried feeling, simple reaction, fighting etc. Tamasic would be confusion & depression. Sattvic is usually how I feel after morning prayers - peace
srini_sadhu: Namaste Rik! That is myrikveda2
srini_sadhu: We are discussing the nature of desire.
myrikveda2: Namaste Sriniji and all!
marsha lange: Hi Rik
Ramya: Rik - we are talking about Sattva, Rajas and Tamas as related to desire
Cynkay Morningsong: Namaste' Rick
srini_sadhu: The next interesting thing comes from Chapter 8 of Chandi Path
kaliananda_saraswati: By being discriminate in all actions ... see if our actions would help or hinder
srini_sadhu: Raktabija
srini_sadhu: When you fulfill a desire, a new desire will be born with the same intensity to captivate us.
srini_sadhu: Is that true?
Janitri Rybacki: for me, it is true...
kaliananda_saraswati: yes
srini_sadhu: So is the solution not to fulfill desires
marsha lange: Yes it can be at times.
Tara Boyce: yes, i guess that is what keeps us going
srini_sadhu: I remember a quote by Neem Karoli Baba
Cynkay Morningsong: I find that anytime I start giving too much attention to my desires they multiply
kaliananda_saraswati: only pure desires.
srini_sadhu: He says if you want to reach God, kill desires
marsha lange: Sound like Babaji wants us to be one with God, no difference.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says – make an inventory of your life.
srini_sadhu: See the raktabijas permeating your life and driving you to behavior you would never contemplate
srini_sadhu: How do we do that?
marsha lange: Or should I say living immersed in the divine?
Cynkay Morningsong: awareness and discrimination?
Janitri Rybacki: kill desires by reciting the Chandi to kill/slay the ego.
Tara Boyce: awareness
kaliananda_saraswati: By making an inventory of your life and clearly defining and analyzing your goal.
myrikveda2: Chapter 8 of the Chandi seems to say that worship of the Mothers prepares us to deal with the Seed of Desire. Once we get to that point, all our hope for victory over desires lies in the worship of Maa Kali, the Remover of Darkness.
srini_sadhu: Thank you all!
srini_sadhu: How about changing your physical environment
Alan: Also, changing your social environment.
Tara Boyce: creating a more sattvic environment
srini_sadhu: Like Kali said, when the goal becomes more clear, we are propelled to make changes in our environments so that we do not have impure desires
Alan: Is "rakta" in raktabija essentially the same kind of desire as the word "kama" in the sutra? Or is there some difference in meaning?
Cynkay Morningsong: I think that making changes is helpful, but ultimately it comes down to whether the changes are able to move within so that your heart changes
srini_sadhu: I find in many cases, environment, the company I keep is more powerful than my will power in tackling desires
Janitri Rybacki: being here immersed in this environment is very helpful with the sharing and growing that helps manifest a higher environment
srini_sadhu: I agree Morningsong, the subtle seeds of desire are always there and the change has to happen within.
kaliananda_saraswati: Jai Maa
srini_sadhu: I have read that we should not fulfill desires, or suppress them but we should transform them. Puzzles me a bit. What do you think?
kaliananda_saraswati: transform them by offering them at the Feet of Mother and asking Her to take them away.
Janitri Rybacki: with Kali and Shiva as the "Transformers", give them the desires?
myrikveda2: Giving them to Maa is the sure way to transform them.
Tara Boyce: like rephrase them, track them back to the source, then put that energy towards god
Cynkay Morningsong: if we fulfill or suppress we will just create more. Maybe the ideal would be to recognize them and transform them into pure desire, recognizing that desire is really desire for God
srini_sadhu: Thank you!
srini_sadhu: I was thinking how can we make an inventory of our raktabijas?
Ramya: Rik - how do we give them to Maa? Thanks for helping me!
marsha lange: Yes, Mother is the one to handle them. I usually visualize what I give as a hibiscus flower offered at her feet.
Tara Boyce: i am a bit confused about why we give our ugly stuff to Maa, i feel the feeling, but wonder why
kaliananda_saraswati: You can also pray to a picture of Maa
Janitri Rybacki: marsha , that's beautiful, a hibiscus
Ramya: Tara - i have felt that way too! But you know what -- everything is Hers!!!
srini_sadhu: I say Mother, I am bad, but I am your son, please accept me and give me wisdom and strength
Ramya: There is an expression "Theraa tujhko arpan" -- Yours i give to You -- Everything, the good, the bad the ugly -- my mind, body, atma!
srini_sadhu: She is the fount of unconditional love
Ramya: One of the names of Durga is "ahamkar" Ego and we asked Swamiji why it is that - Swamiji said She makes ego Divine Ego.
Tara Boyce: that helps Ramya-thank you!
kaliananda_saraswati: Maa knows our shortcomings, she understands and loves her children so just offering Her make that ugly stuff makes it become beautiful
srini_sadhu: But like a Mom, She is proud of us when we make changes and love Her back
kaliananda_saraswati: sorry - offering her that ugly stuff makes it become beautiful
Ramya: Thanks Kali, Marsha, Tara, Janitri, Rik ---- so beautiful!
srini_sadhu: We have an idea for an activity for this Sutra
srini_sadhu: Would you like to hear?
Tara Boyce: yes
Janitri Rybacki: yes!!!!
Cynkay Morningsong: yes!
kaliananda_saraswati: yes, please!
srini_sadhu: 1. Think of some people who inspire you and what are the qualities in them that inspire you.
srini_sadhu: 2. What are objects you need and want to possess – e.g. car, TV, house, toys.
srini_sadhu: 3. What are activities you like to do – dancing, cooking, playing tennis
srini_sadhu: These three lists would give us an idea about the desires that drive our lives.
srini_sadhu: Then we can ask ourselves which of these are in line with our goals and our inspiration.
srini_sadhu: Does this make sense, do you think this will help understand ourselves?
kaliananda_saraswati: i think it will.
Janitri Rybacki: yes
Tara Boyce: yes
Cynkay Morningsong: yes
Ramya: Anything else we can add -- please feel free to share now or on yahoo group. this is just to help us contemplate more deeply!
kaliananda_saraswati: ok
Ramya: Maa sings a song "Bhavile Bhava udhay hoi" -- From our attitude (bhava), our bhava grows -- so if we list our activities,desires - we will get an idea
Ramya: an idea where we are -- and help chart - where we are likely to go with these activities/desires.
Ramya: If we don't want to go there too much, we can change now!
srini_sadhu: I started doing this yesterday and it helped clarify my mind.
Ramya: Alan, Nanda, Rik, Marsha - what do you think?
Nanda Krishnamurthi: I think this is a great discussion, and I am still pondering the first question on "Pure Desire"
kaliananda_saraswati: good for you Srini.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji talks about the nine steps of devotion - these are all examples of pure desires
Tara Boyce: can you share more Srini
srini_sadhu: I used to think that these 9 steps comes one after the other, but when I read it again
srini_sadhu: i discovered that once can do all of them
srini_sadhu: Share about what Tara?
Tara Boyce: the nine steps
srini_sadhu: The first step is associate with saintly people
Ramya: 2. Enjoy stories of God and saints
srini_sadhu: 3. Perform selfless service
Ramya: 4. Sing to God! ....sooooo fun!
srini_sadhu: 5. Chant mantras with full faith
marsha lange: Yes making friends with our mind, for it is the way we perceive the universe and come to know God.
Ramya: 6. Perform all actions with tranquility -- Sounds like it is not the action itself but our state of mind that makes it an act of devotion
srini_sadhu: 7. See the world as equal to God and regard the company of saints as greater than the perception of God
Ramya: Thanks Marsha!
Ramya: 8. Be content and not find fault with others
srini_sadhu: 9. Be simple, unselfish and delight in God
srini_sadhu: Those are the nine steps.
marsha lange: Judge not lest ye be judged.
Ramya: How do we make friends with our mind, Marsha?
srini_sadhu: The other thought I had is to watch what I do, as my actions would give me a clue about what my desires are.
Cynkay Morningsong: definitely!
Ramya: Seems like the more we can fill our days with these activities - the closer we will be to God.
marsha lange: Buy knowing it's limitations and being at peace with that. Knowing that there is mystery in life and we can't solve everything. We still strive and try to be the best we can and make our corner of the universe a better place
Ramya: That really helps me. Thank you! Thank you!
Tara Boyce: that is beautiful Marsha, thank you
srini_sadhu: There is a famous Upanishadic saying
marsha lange: Also living with cats. That really teaches me about impermanence.
kaliananda_saraswati: Yes, thanks Marsha. Great food for thought.
srini_sadhu: As is my desire, so is my deed
srini_sadhu: As is my deed, so is my character
srini_sadhu: As is my character, so is my destiny
Janitri Rybacki: Srini, where is this from?
srini_sadhu: Its one of the Upanishads, I will track it down and post on club, Janitri
Ramya: So this week - we can think about what is my aspiration
Ramya: what are my desires?
Nanda Krishnamurthi: This question on "pure desire" and all your responses made me think a lot. I also discussed it with someone and thanks to this person for helping me come up with my definition of pure desire. This is my definition - " Any desire that seeks the Grace of God/Guru, and the only Grace sought is pure devotion, is a pure desire."
Ramya: Are my desires and activities in line with my aspirations?
srini_sadhu: I enjoyed talking to you all.
Ramya: Thanks so much Nanda - may She grant us the boon of Eternal Pure Devotion!
srini_sadhu: Please share on the club your thoughts on the nature of desire and how we can transcend them
kaliananda_saraswati: this class was the best. Thank you pure souls
Tara Boyce: This is so helpful and sweet-thank you all, Namaste!
myrikveda2: Namaste to all. Thank you Srini.
Ramya: Thank you very much! Jai Maa!!
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Namaste. Jai Maa
Janitri Rybacki: Thank U soooo much...Jai Maa
Cynkay Morningsong: Namaste' all ...thank you
srini_sadhu: I pray for our clarity, wisdom love and continued friendship!
marsha lange: Thank you everyone. Great satsang.
Alan: Thank you! Namaste.