srini_sadhu: Swamiji was here and he sends blessings to you all
Usha Haywood: I’m bowing at my computer so i can receive the blessing
srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: Overview
srini_sadhu: Sutra 12 is about ajapa japa, Sutra 13 is about the nature of the soul, and Sutra 14 is about Advaita, non-duality
srini_sadhu: Sutra 15 is about the Guru. In the interests of time, we will discuss the Guru on the Yahoo Group during the week
srini_sadhu: Let's start with Sutra 12
srini_sadhu: In a state of ajapa, we perceive or understand the principle of equilibrium, the principle beyond all qualities
srini_sadhu: So three ideas, ajapa, equilibrium, and nirguna (beyond qualities)
srini_sadhu: I am interested in your ideas about this notion of equilibrium. It is the end state. How would you describe it?
Forall10q has joined the conference.
srini_sadhu: Namaste Karen!
Forall10q: Namaste!
Janitri Rybacki: Equilibrium seems to indicate balance.
Ramya: A state of peace - equilibrium
Ramya: Janitiri - so nice to see you here! What does balance mean?
Usha Haywood: Ramakrishna tried to describe some of these things but would go into samadhi when he got to the higher states and with tears in his eyes declared that he could not
lokesh green: equilibrium i see as a state of dynamic balance and harmony - being
lokesh green: union yoga
srini_sadhu: In the Chandi, Swamiji talks about "too much" and "too little"
Janitri Rybacki: A balance of no matter what happens on the outside, balance "is". Centered in God.
Ramya: Thanks! So a feeling of certitude, a solid foundation?
srini_sadhu: Can we ever be in balance when acting in the waking state?
Janitri Rybacki: yes, solid!
Usha Haywood: only in the awake state
vish108weshwar: I understand that one of the 3 gunas is always predominate, so we are never in perfect balance in the relative, while acting?
vish108weshwar: gunas
srini_sadhu: Maa said that as long as we have mind, there will always be waves.
Ramya: Yes, Vish - i have heard that too - but i also heard that Mahatmas even while acting are centered in God - so they act from that Center that Janitri explained.
Usha Haywood: not in nirguna samadhi - no mind?
srini_sadhu: I guess I am asking is it possible to keep a goal of continually being in balance, centered while being awake? Is this goal realistic? What do you think?
vish108weshwar: the text states that the search is for the principle which is of the quality of perfect equilibrium and balance, or beyond all qualities?
Usha Haywood: all the seeds are burnt - can you imagine??
srini_sadhu: Vish, another way to state it is that by being in a state of ajapa japa, we find the state of nirguna, or equilibrium
Usha Haywood: not for us i think Srini
Ramya: From what Usha says, i think it is possible - if we act without selfish desire - from a center of love and God and giving - a center of peace and stillness. Does that make sense?
Janitri Rybacki: acting from a center of peace and stillness makes sense. not reacting though, but responding with love.
Janitri Rybacki: i once saw someone write "answer your potential with love." seems like this could fit here.
vish108weshwar: i understand what both srini and ramya and usha say, but i do not think we can stay in the state of perfect balance while acting in the relative world. that is a question for Swami, i think
srini_sadhu: So by increasing the time spent in japa, we can find that center of love, balance, harmony, equilibrium.
Usha Haywood: the great masters - but for the rest of us - baby steps
srini_sadhu:
Usha Haywood: but baby steps are wonderful too!!!!
Usha Haywood: let's take them together
srini_sadhu: The other thing besides japa, Swamiji says to reduce the amount of worldly speech, or bautika speech
Ramya: So to understand from the Sutra - if we do japa, we reach state of ajapa - which keeps us centered on God, both in meditation time and all other times? Is that right?
srini_sadhu: Do any of you know stories of Saints who made japa their primary goal and way of life?
srini_sadhu: Yes Ramya
Usha Haywood: i believe that most of them in many traditions certainly see japa as a major contributor
srini_sadhu: The example that comes to mind is Valmiki Muni
vish108weshwar: ramya, the text states the mantra is the sound upon which all other sounds are heard; we still act, the mantra goes on by itself, we hear the sound of God always, that is the goal of japa
Usha Haywood: the great Masters would only talk about God
srini_sadhu: Yes Vish like a tape recorder playing in the background while we do our cooking, cleaning, etc.
Usha Haywood: yes all existence takes place over the background of japa
srini_sadhu: One thing we can do this week is think of ways and activities where we can incorporate japa
Usha Haywood: at first there was the word - and the word was God
Ramya: Thanks Vish!
srini_sadhu: How does that sound?
Janitri Rybacki: sounds good!
lokesh green: yes, found last weeks practice valuable
srini_sadhu: in our other group we said we would all say a mala of japa as soon as we get up from bed, bow to God and pray that we will remember God throughout the day
srini_sadhu: Swamiji suggested this to me as a means of getting out of bed quickly
vish108weshwar: before arising, before bed at night, before meals, before shower,
srini_sadhu: Thanks Vish!
Usha Haywood: a good question would be - how to remember Mother all day - how not to go to sleep - get lost in the corridors of mind
vish108weshwar: Maa says God's name every chance She gets
Usha Haywood: the practice will reinforce itself if we are sincere and make effort - then grace comes
srini_sadhu: Add 5 minutes every week and in a few years, that will be a lot of time
vish108weshwar: We can surround our self with images of Gods and Goddesses, have an alter in our rooms, pictures in our car
Usha Haywood: yes - reminding factors vish
srini_sadhu: Thanks all! Could we discuss Sutra 13?
Ramya: Usha, we can keep a time log of what we are doing every day - for a couple of days and consciously think of which activities we could be doing with japa. I am hoping to do that!
Ramya: Japa - instead of chatting or day dreaming!
Usha Haywood: that sounds like a very worthwhile effort
Ramya: Onward Sutra 13!
srini_sadhu: is that OK with all?
vish108weshwar: yes
lokesh green: yes thanks
Usha Haywood: yes
Janitri Rybacki: yes!
srini_sadhu: Sutra 13 says: The intrinsic form of the Supreme soul is eternal liberation
srini_sadhu: Very abstract to me, a bunch of words
srini_sadhu: Maa and Swamiji say a couple of things that make it practical
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says: Way to self-realization is to fall in love with somebody or something so much with sincerity that you make a real commitment and start acting as if you believe in what you are doing.
srini_sadhu: Both Maa and Swamiji all the masters did this, they dropped everything else and focused on their goal, God
Usha Haywood: the lover longs for the beloved above all else!
srini_sadhu: Is that possible for us to do, if not why not?
Ramya: But we can't make a sankalpa to fall in love....how do we make it love and how do we make is so much true sincerity?
Ramya: sorry - how do we make it true and sincere?
Usha Haywood: YES!!!
Usha Haywood: it is possible!!!
lokesh green: possible, but not easy because of conflicting desires
Usha Haywood: for all of us!!
srini_sadhu: Jai Maa Usha!
Usha Haywood: JAI MAA!!!
Ramya: Thanks Usha, it is so beautiful to be full of hope! Hope to reach Mother's Feet!
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says "We take a little passion, and make it bigger and bigger until we become really sincere."
Usha Haywood: she is the ONE to help us with our baby steps
Ramya: How do we make it bigger?
srini_sadhu: The question is "what can that little passion be". Right now many conflicting passions, like Lokesh said.
Usha Haywood: Ramakrishna used to rub his face in the dirt until it bled - in longing for the Divine Mother
Forall10q: om amen the word the passion all
Usha Haywood: are they really passions?? or just passing desires - do they stand the test of time ??? Mother will!
vish108weshwar: if i love my wife, and see her as Divine Mother, and treat her as such, that won't that action gradually spread to other relationships?
Usha Haywood: i think so vish
srini_sadhu: Vish, my two cents.
srini_sadhu: I think it is the ultimate goal.
vish108weshwar: Maa has said to my wife and I to be a divine couple, and to perform Shiva and Durga puja to each other, to learn to worship each other as divine beings.
vish108weshwar: she has said that to others too
srini_sadhu: But it is easier to start loving a deity, it is easier because the deity does not talk back to you
Usha Haywood: how beautiful - Thakur did this to Sarada Devi
vish108weshwar: but srini, that is what makes it so much fun, so interesting, so challenging, and ultimately so rewarding: to see the imperfections, but, the perfect nature of your wife shines brighter than the imperfect, due to your love and worship of her
Ramya: Thanks Vish - that is such a beautiful understanding!
srini_sadhu: Challenging, I agree
Usha Haywood: your relationship has to be very pure - a wonderful effort
vish108weshwar: what other effort is worth the time? Your spouse is the reflection, is really the Divine in human form
vish108weshwar: so, what do devotee focus on if they are single, but in the world?
Forall10q: treating everyone as god
Usha Haywood: their respective Ishta
Ramya: God! Yes Karen!!!!
Ramya: Maa once gave the example of seeing each person as a specific deity
Usha Haywood: represented by japa
vish108weshwar: yes, i agree. Worship Shiva, then turn from the altar, and look for Shiva in everyone's heart?
Ramya: If they are creating something new - see them as Brahma, if they are taking care -- see as Vishnu, if they are giving knowledge and helping transform - see as Shiva.
vish108weshwar: ramya, i like that teaching, please tell everyone
srini_sadhu: Sri Ramakrishna said, first find God in your self and then it will be easy to see God in the world and in others
Ramya: While we are looking for God in our heart, we are working with others - so i feel Maa is teaching us to talk to God in the altar and see God in everyone's heart all through the day!
vish108weshwar: with support from brothers and sisters like you all, how can i fail?
Ramya: Two-pronged strategy for the 21st century!
srini_sadhu: Thanks all! Could we turn to Sutra 14?
Ramya: yes
lokesh green: yes
Janitri Rybacki: yes
Usha Haywood: yes
srini_sadhu: This is about advaita, or non-duality as opposed to dvaita, or duality
srini_sadhu: Swamiji describes advaita as a residence
srini_sadhu: When we get out of this "residence" we come into samsara or the world of action and reaction
srini_sadhu: And when we are in samsara, it is easy to forget the divinity in us
srini_sadhu: Why do we come out of the advaita house? Can we not stay inside?
srini_sadhu: Have we been there?
Usha Haywood: Even the great ones are bewitched by Mahamaya ! - let alone the rest of us !
Usha Haywood: Chandi
srini_sadhu: What is the single most powerful thing that pulls us outside?
vish108weshwar: unfulfilled desires?
Ramya: i agree with Vish - desires in the material world
Usha Haywood: Mother's play initially then samskaras
srini_sadhu: Attachments?
Usha Haywood: aversions too
Ramya: are attachments not a type of unfulfilled desire too?
Janitri Rybacki: attachments, desires - they have a lot in common.
vish108weshwar: i want to stay separate from Maa so i can serve Her?
srini_sadhu: What are some practical things we can do to loosen the hold of desires, aversions, attachments?
srini_sadhu: Attachments are recurring thoughts about the same object, I think.
Ramya: Make a goal and use that to discriminate which desires, aversions, attachments will lead us to onward!
Janitri Rybacki: Srini, that succinctly states attachment - your definition
Usha Haywood: first i must see myself more and more clearly
srini_sadhu: Thanks !
Ramya: Yes, Usha, seems like being aware of what we do, who is this person - is first step.
vish108weshwar: whatever we wish to achieve, a goal is needed, then a plan of action, then discipline, then constant inspiration- chats, Mandir, Maa, etc
Usha Haywood: so many hidden threads
Usha Haywood: satsanga
Forall10q: practical idea...remember our spiritual diary
vish108weshwar: well usha, after all these chats, we have seen one great certainity: we are born with the desire to know God, so know god we must
Ramya: Thanks Vish!
Ramya: Thanks Forall10q- that is a GREAT reminder!!!!
Usha Haywood: JAI MAA!
srini_sadhu: Thanks Forall10qand all!
Forall10q: the diary is God, talk to God
srini_sadhu: Sutra 15 is about the Guru. The Guru is the cause of all causes.
vish108weshwar: Thanks all brother and sisters. You are all God, and we are all talking about God, how great is that?
Ramya: Thanks again Forall10q - that is a great practical reminder tool!
srini_sadhu: Could you all write one paragraph and post on the club about your feelings about the Guru, your Guru?
Ramya: ok!
vish108weshwar: yes, great plan.
Usha Haywood: ok
srini_sadhu: Thank you!
vish108weshwar: the club is so great, i hope you all be come and visit
Ramya: Thanks so much for this great satsang and sharing your love and knowledge!
vish108weshwar: since we are all one soul, your increase is our increase
Ramya: i learnt a lot from these Kashyapa sutra discussions! thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
srini_sadhu: Thank you all for your patience and kindness. This will be our last discussion on the Kashyapa Sutras in 2006
Ramya: Hope we will all meet again - online and offline!
Usha Haywood: Thank you all soooooo much
Forall10q: Good night everyone and thank you
Janitri Rybacki: thank you...
lokesh green: thank you all namaste