srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
henny_v_i: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
Ramya: Namaste Henny and Sadhumaa! What a joy to see here again!
srini_sadhu: Welcome Sadumaa, Henny, Ramya
S: Jai Maa
henny_v_i: Namaste, good to be here again.
srini_sadhu: We are waiting for a few more people to join
Ramya: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
S: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
Ramya: Namaste Shubal and Durga!
srini_sadhu: Namaste Kali!
Ramya: Kali! Kali! Kail!
kaliananda_saraswati: Namaste dear ones.
S: Kalimaakijai
kaliananda_saraswati: Jai Maa!
Ramya: Feels like the whole world is one - We are one Family!
Kalachandra Chandra: Hi dear family
srini_sadhu: Jai Maa! Kalachandra
srini_sadhu: Amazing
Ramya: Welcome! Welcome! Welcome Kalachandra!
henny_v_i: Namaste sister!
Ramya: So happy to see you!
kaliananda_saraswati: Namaste Kalachandra. Welcome.
Kalachandra Chandra: Pranans to all you
srini_sadhu: Holland, Brazil, Boston, Barbados, North Carolina, Napa
S: The world is Hers
henny_v_i: Jai Maa
Shubalanddurga: namaste!
Kalachandra Chandra: Yes!!!! Jai Maa!
srini_sadhu: Namaste Shubal!
srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: Shall we begin
Shubalanddurga: it is actually Durga on line today, Shubal is not here
srini_sadhu: Namaste Pahari Maa!
Ramya: Jai Maa Paharimaa!
paharimaa: Namaste!
kaliananda_saraswati: Welcome Pahari Maa. Wonderful to see you.
srini_sadhu: Namaste Janitri
Kalachandra Chandra: Jai Pahari Maa! Pranans to you dear
henny_v_i: Namaste Pahari Maa, good to see you
Ramya: Welcome everybody! Looking foward to learning together!
Janitri Rybacki: Namaste Everyone!
paharimaa: Wonderful to see you all!
srini_sadhu: First class we talked about Goals and Sankalpa – how to set goals and then make a plan that will help to reach them.
srini_sadhu: Next class we discussed spiritual practice – Worship or Puja. Today we will discuss another practice “Path”
srini_sadhu: What is Path?
paharimaa: Recitation
S: chosen practice?
srini_sadhu: Thank you! Recitation of Scriptures
kaliananda_saraswati: The road that takes us to our goal.
Ramya: Welcome Alphanso!
srini_sadhu: I meant Path in Sanskrit
srini_sadhu: Like Chandi Path
srini_sadhu: How does Path differ from Puja?
paharimaa: Thank you for the preparation info you put on the website.
srini_sadhu: You are welcome!
paharimaa: Path involves chanting. Puja involves offerings.
Ramya: In Sanskrit "path" is a word that means recitation of scriptures.
S: micro macro, puja being the outer manifestation, path being the sound elements, the vibrations that enliven the puja
Ramya: Sadumaa - that is very interesting! You see them both as being one!
Ramya: Usually we refer to the sound elements in puja as mantras.
srini_sadhu: Welcome Lee!
Ramya: A "path" is also composed of mantras - a series of mantras that make up a scripture
Lee Katchen: Good to be here
S: and the scripture is also written in our bodies, at each kosha/level/layer of existance
srini_sadhu: Pujas are collection of viddhis or modules that are strung together to make worship. Purification and offereings play a larger role in Puja
srini_sadhu: Path relates to a specific Scripture. Both involve chanting.
srini_sadhu: Lets discuss why we recite scriptures - there are so many good reasons!
Ramya: Yes sadumaa - and my understanding is that the outer practice of reciting scriptures helps us to understand the inner layers
srini_sadhu: In this class we will discuss why we chant and how we chant
srini_sadhu: Why do we recite scriptures - please share!
Alphansa DSouza: Opens our minds to the gods and makes it more acceptable.
paharimaa: To learn and become inspired.
paharimaa: to worship
Kalachandra Chandra: I like
Ramya: kalachandra - so sweet!
henny_v_i: to continually remind us and incorporate what the scripture says
Janitri Rybacki: It pleases the Gods
kaliananda_saraswati: to take us back to union with the One
S: brings joy, happiness, health, awakens inspiration, opens us, opens our hearts to the Truth of who we are
srini_sadhu: All beautiful!
Shubalanddurga: to honor and fortify the divine externally and internally with devotion
srini_sadhu: The word Mantra can be understood as that which takes away the mind
paharimaa: What does Chandi Maa say is the reason to sing?
Ramya: All these are so sublime and uplifting -- Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
srini_sadhu: Man trayate iti mantra
paharimaa: sorry - does
srini_sadhu: By chanting mantras (scriptures) we regulate our breath and thus the mind
srini_sadhu: In this manner we go inward toward God
srini_sadhu: Pahari Maa, I would say to go inward
henny_v_i: could you say reciting 'tunes' us and changes the rate of vibration?
S: Shree Maa told us pranayama, with breath coordinated with mantra silently for just 15 minutes or as long as we could would quiet the agression of the mind for the day
srini_sadhu: That's right, we will talk more about Pranayam later today
Ramya: In chapter 12, there are many reasons and benefits from chanting the Chandi
S: Sriniji, are you somehow equating mind and ego in this lesson?
srini_sadhu: The first step before we do anything is understand our intentions and motivations for chanting
Ramya: Yes Henny - i think it does, takes us to a peaceful state in tune with Gods, as Janitri said
henny_v_i: that's reason enough to recite, I should say
srini_sadhu: I would say chanting in a certain way reduces the flow of thought towards the world and takes you inside and makes you more focused
paharimaa: Into the Oneness
srini_sadhu: When I started chanting Chandi, my motivation came from Chapter 12 where it says chanting will help bridge friendships. I was also inspired by Maa and Swamiji's regularity in chanting the Chandi
srini_sadhu: I was not thinking about pranayam, asan, or devotion then. But as I continued to chant everyday, these become more important
kaliananda_saraswati: I find it difficult at times to maintain pranayam
kaliananda_saraswati: how can this be corrected?
Ramya: When we do a Path 2 things are important - first is motivation.
Kalachandra Chandra: I find it difficult at times to maintain pranayam too
srini_sadhu: Start small and then expand.
kaliananda_saraswati: ok, thanks
Ramya: Second is sincerity and attention.
srini_sadhu: The minimum is one-fourth verse, we will definitely discuss this more
Shubalanddurga: Namaste Nanda
Ramya: Welcome Nanda!!!!
Kalachandra Chandra: Jai Nandaji!!!!
Nanda Krishnamurthi: jai maa
paharimaa: Glad to see you, Nandaji
kaliananda_saraswati: Jai Maa Nandaji
srini_sadhu: So we begin with why we are doing. Really evaluate this everyday. For example, my current intention is to get asan siddhi primarily.
srini_sadhu: Then we persist everyday with sincerity
henny_v_i: does that mean you try to sit still longer every day?
Ramya: So Kali you can make doing pranayam correctly your main motivation and really focus on it.
kaliananda_saraswati: ok, will do that.
kaliananda_saraswati: Thank you.
srini_sadhu: It depends on your plan and your capacity, I would think Henny
henny_v_i: ok, I understand
srini_sadhu: There is another very good interesting reason to chant
srini_sadhu: There are two types of speech
srini_sadhu: Vedic and Bautika
srini_sadhu: : vedic, which are words of wisdom, words of communion, words which inspire us. Holy words
srini_sadhu: Bautika – words which take us into the world of objects and relationships
srini_sadhu: When we do sadhana, we want to control our bautika speech which comes into our processing center as well as how much worldly speech comes out.
srini_sadhu: When we chant scriptures in sanskrit we are engaging in vedic speech.
Ramya: As we keep on chanting, the sanskrit words and mantras fill us - they keep us in a space of purity and beauty - with God.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji gave me an example yesterday
srini_sadhu: In Guru Gita, the first verse is Kailasa Shikhare Ramye
srini_sadhu: This means on the Beautiful Summit of Mount Kailash
srini_sadhu: It could be mean the actual Mountain Kailash
Ramya: Kailash = Mount Kailash Shikare = Summit Ramye=beautiful
srini_sadhu: Or it could mean the Mount Kailash inside you
srini_sadhu: The Scriptures in Sanskrit take you inside because they have several level meanings.
srini_sadhu: If we focus on the subtle meaning we go inside
Alphansa DSouza: and what goes in comes out! GIGO!
srini_sadhu: As opposed to thinking about how it would be to climb Mount Kailash!
srini_sadhu: Does that make sense?
paharimaa: Yes
henny_v_i: Perfectly
Janitri Rybacki: yes, absolutely
Ramya: Maa once said that we have to find out the meanings for ourselves - from the gross to the subtle to the causal.
Alphansa DSouza: yes
S: The road seems long with Sanskrit and even devanagri are foreign languages to us, yet I respond to them.
Shubalanddurga: deep consistent breathing is good for climbing mountains
Nanda Krishnamurthi: i like your comment "When we do sadhana, we want to control our bautika speech which comes into our processing center as well as how much worldly speech comes out."
paharimaa: When you are chanting with an accomplished Guru the scriptures really come alive.
Ramya: Saduma -It is a road that rishis have travelled and promised us that if we follow it we will reach - we have the example of our own Beloved Swamiji to show us this truth!
Nanda Krishnamurthi: to me it is summarized in these few words "speak only when you can improve silence"
paharimaa: Hearing Maa chanting the 32 Names Of Durga was so wonderful.
kaliananda_saraswati: srini this reminds me of the prana pratistha sukta - "The Gods and asuras speaking to gether are the great rivers of churning to the mind. Rise to the top of this pot to separate them from what is actually Visnu Himself. "
srini_sadhu: Thank you Kali
S: Truth is, I want to know Her as my best friend, my mentor, my mother, my teacher. I want to sit with Her daily without limitations of confusion or veils of ignorance. I don't want anything or anyone between us. I want to know Her and know myself as She does. The question, is Sankrit chanting the most efficient path to take me to this goal? This mountain summit?
srini_sadhu: Sadumaa I think it is definitely part of it. If we read Her story everyday She will come closer to us till we discover Her in our Hearts
srini_sadhu: Sanskrit has two shaktis: Vachak and Vaikarik
paharimaa: She is with us as we chant to Her.
srini_sadhu: Vachak is the intellectual meaning
srini_sadhu: Vaikarika is the intuitive meaning.
srini_sadhu: Lets talk about different chanting styles
paharimaa: Thank you Kalia
srini_sadhu: Ok there are 4 styles of chanting
srini_sadhu: Bhakti Path , Shakti Path, Tapasya, and Jivanam
srini_sadhu: It is very interesting and Swamiji demonstrated these 4 yesterday to me and I want to share this
Kalachandra Chandra: Jai Swamiji!!!!
srini_sadhu: In Bhakti Path, we chant to understand the meaning
srini_sadhu: We chant slowly. More like 1/4 verse to a breath
Ramya: We can read gross level meaning - but only as we read, understand, think and meditate we can understand the meaing at the subtle and causal levels.
paharimaa: to build devotion?
srini_sadhu: For example if a verse has 32 syllables, we chant 8 syllables, and pause
Ramya: Yes - focus here is on meaning and by that understanding we get devotion
S: Let it resonate>
srini_sadhu: Yes devotion!
srini_sadhu: This style is popular in South India and Swamiji said popularized by Bollywood
Ramya: It is very beautiful to hear groups of chanters sitting in the temple - from the very young to the old chanting - sounds like singing to God!
paharimaa: It is singing to God!
Ramya: Shakti is when we chant with pranayama.
paharimaa: Swamiji said once "it sounds like a temple in here."
S: What is the goal of shakti chanting?
Ramya: We say a mantra in the in-breath - this can be our Guru mantra or some other mantra
Ramya: In the out-breadth we chant the verse
srini_sadhu: The focus is on breathing regularly and consistently
Ramya: It can be 1/4 of a verse, 1/2 a verse, 1 verse ...or as many as we are capable.
paharimaa: Perhaps to control the prana.
Ramya: Maa once said that you want to get devotion -- you can get if you chant with pranayama.
paharimaa: To focus on Oneness.
Ramya: So my understanding is that in all this chanting - we use different techniques for one goal - God!
srini_sadhu: It is also helpful to practice pranayam as a separate practice everyday
Ramya: One important thing about breathing is our breadth should come from stomach not chest
Ramya: Maa said we can take a mantra like "Om Namah Sivaya" in the proportion 1:4:2 -- 1 in breath, 4 times holding breadth and 2 times out breath
Ramya: As Sadumaa said, if we do this in morning, helps us to be calm all day!
srini_sadhu: So we chant for bhakti understanding, second we chant with focus on pranayam, third is tapasya
srini_sadhu: The consideration here is get asan siddhi
Shubalanddurga: So we chant for bhakti understanding, second we chant with focus on pranayam"
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says asan is very important
Ramya: Yes - Shubal!
srini_sadhu: If our body is still, more likely that mind will become still
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Ramya - the 1:4:2 is for doing japa not for pranayam - can u please confirm
Ramya: It is for japa with pranayam - it is explained in Guru and Goddess also.
Nanda Krishnamurthi: i meant Ramya - the 1:4:2 is for doing japa not for chanting texts with pranayam - can u please confirm
Ramya: yes - exactly Nanda. It is for doing JAPA without text
Shubalanddurga: Clarification, please: " we chant for bhakti understanding, second we chant with focus on pranayam" is that to say that the 'shakti path' style of chanting is a focus on pranyam?
Ramya: Yes, Durga
S: And what does Shakti style chanting do for us?
Ramya: In Tapaysa focus is on asan
Ramya: All styles give devotion - we use different techniques alone or in combination at different times - at least that is my understanding.
S: Bhakti for understanding
srini_sadhu: Shakti Path focus on pranayam. Prana is controlled by inhaling the verses and exhaling the verses. When we keep doing thing for along time, we attain prana siddhi, perfection in managing the breath
srini_sadhu: When we regulate our breath, we are regulating our mind. Because they two are linked
srini_sadhu: Ok third consideration for chanting is asan
srini_sadhu: Three things that have helped me
srini_sadhu: Practice Baddhakonasan regularly
srini_sadhu: Expand asan little by litlle
srini_sadhu: Third, using abookstand
Shubalanddurga: please remind - what is baddhakonasan
srini_sadhu: Baddhakonasana is the butterfly pose
srini_sadhu: There was discussion on the club about this and I will put it up again
srini_sadhu: Last summer, I was barely able to sit for ten minutes without moving my knees.
S: Benefits of asan siddhi?
srini_sadhu: Now with regular practice, I am able to sit for 1 hour 15 minutes everyday
Ramya: In the FAQs links for this class, Swamiji has answered questions relating to specific how to sit - specific asanas.
srini_sadhu: Asan Siddhi means not moving the body for at least 3 hours
S: Enough time to commune with God. Thank you
Ramya: When we chant a scripture we want to be able to focus on the meaning and chanting - not on our knees and back pain!
Shubalanddurga: And using a bookstand -- is that to keep facing forward with head erect (vs bent looking down) so the upper spine can be straight?
Nanda Krishnamurthi: shubal and durga - here is the link for baddhakonasan on the group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Devi_Mandir/message/14066
paharimaa: When I am with Swamiji I can sit for 3 hrs. At home it is more difficiult.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says very difficult to control the thoughts. Instead we make promise not to move our knees and pray to Her to take care of the thoughts
paharimaa: Neat!
Ramya: Yes - Shubal and Durga, you got it!
Shubalanddurga: Sorry... just Durga is here today on behalf of both of us. Thanks for the link on asan; just wanted a reminder in this discussion of the meaning of that sanskrit name for the pose.
srini_sadhu: My experience is this, if we are able to sit still, we can control our breath,. If we control our breath, we can focus on the meaning. When we focus on the meaning we feel more close to HER. That is the progression.
S: Bhakti for understanding
Shakti for prana siddhi and regulating the mind
Tapasya for asan siddhi and ability to focus on scripture
Jivanam for ....
srini_sadhu: Jivanam involves chanting om slowly and then chanting each sysllable of a verse in an slow and elongated manner and then ending the verse with along om.
S: Beautifully put Sriniji.
srini_sadhu: Swamiji said that it has to be demonstrated and hard to talk about it
srini_sadhu: Those of you coming for the retreat, Swamiji said we will do a class on these styles of chanting
henny_v_i: does jivanam sound a bit like the MahaMrtyunjaya mantra recording?
Shubalanddurga: what is the specific goal of jivanam style?
srini_sadhu: Sort of. But you need to hear Swamiji
srini_sadhu: We were on a walk yesterday and He demonstrated it. It was beautiful. He said it can take you to samadhi
srini_sadhu: I will ask him the question Durga
paharimaa: Yes! The small soul disappears into the Big Soul.
srini_sadhu: Any other questions, discussion?
henny_v_i: How do you choose a style? Personal preference/
Nanda Krishnamurthi: the four styles of chanting has been very informative - thank you
S: In a class with a Sanskrit scholar we followed the bija mantras into the silences, letting sounds rise and fall. The sound carries into the silences. It seems the last method would be inline with this...and a nice path to samadhi. Thank you for this explaination
S: that would be silence
srini_sadhu: Henny, I will ask Swamiji, good question!
henny_v_i: ok, thank you.
srini_sadhu: Should we wind u-p?
Janitri Rybacki: Are we to practice all four chanting ways regularly?
Shubalanddurga: So to summarize, and ask a question: bhakti style for understanding and we chant slowly; shakti style for pranayam cultivating prana and breath control via regulating the inhale and exhale; tapasya style is for focusing on cultivating asan via yoga, incremental effort, bookstand for straight upper spine; jivanam focusing on ?we will find out? via elongating the articulation. Srini, you mentioned your experience of the progression among these – sit still, breath control, focus on meaning…my question is: is there a recommended order for focusing on these different styles when beginning, before they are integrated?
srini_sadhu: Food for though, I will get back to you
Shubalanddurga: Thank you!
srini_sadhu: I think we move forward on asan pranayam and understanding simulataneously, not in a linear fashion. The focus changes from time to time
srini_sadhu: Ok thank you all for the nice discussion. I hope it helped us all
paharimaa: Thank you!
S: Wonderful. Jai Maa
Janitri Rybacki: You have helped...many thanks...Love!
Nanda Krishnamurthi: yes it has - thank you Srini and Ramya
Ramya: Thanks everybody! Jai Maa! See you next time!
henny_v_i: thank you, I learned a lot. Hope to see you all again next week!
Shubalanddurga: What a wonderful opportunity to refine our knowledge and understanding of the practice. Thank you.
kaliananda_saraswati: Jai Maa. Thanks you all..great class, lots of food for thought.
srini_sadhu: Looking forward to our continued friendship
Kalachandra Chandra: I Thank you very much this class! Jai Maa Jai Swamiji!