srini_sadhu: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: Welcome to our class!
Ramya: Om Sang Saraswatyai Namaha!
srini_sadhu: Namaste Ann!
Ramya: Ann - so wonderful to see you again!
nodivision108: Wow! It works. Chris W (CW)
Ann Millet: Namaste All! nice to be here.
srini_sadhu: Great!
Ramya: Welcome Chris! Jai Maa!
srini_sadhu: We look forward to having a nice loving discussion
nodivision108: Jai Maa!
srini_sadhu: We have another seven minutes, could you say where you are - location?
srini_sadhu: Namaste Morningsong!
Cynkay Morningsong: Namaste' I'm in Santa Rosa CA
Ramya: Welcome Morningsong!
Cynkay Morningsong: thank you
nodivision108: God bless you all. I am in Forestville, about 2 hrs from Devi Mandir.
Cynkay Morningsong: I'm glad to finally make it here
nodivision108: Me too!
srini_sadhu: to make this effective, i would like to mention a few things
srini_sadhu: In general we will start with a topic and write a few things about it
srini_sadhu: Then we will open up for discussion
Ramya: Welcome Linda!
srini_sadhu: Welcome Linda!
Linda Talbott: Hello! So glad to be here. I am showing up as skyedaughter on the list.
srini_sadhu: We might have a few more participants, so I will invite as they show up on my screen
Linda Talbott: morningsong, Ramya, Rangan, shakti ann ... so nice to see everyone.
Cynkay Morningsong: Good to see you too
srini_sadhu: And also nodivision is Chris
srini_sadhu: Jai Maa! Let us start the class!
Linda Talbott: :::clapping:::
srini_sadhu: Today's class is on Paath (sanskrit word)
srini_sadhu: First question : What is Paath?
Cynkay Morningsong: scripture?
Linda Talbott: Oh, I wanted to know the answer to that one.
srini_sadhu: Paath is recitation of scripture
Linda Talbott: makes sense
Ramya: Path also means scripture - here we are referring to reciting the scripture
Linda Talbott: So if I am reciting the Advanced Shiva Puja,that would also be considered Path?
srini_sadhu: Discussion: How does differ from Puja?
Linda Talbott: One would be reading or reciting only and one would be with all the elements of puja: offerings, homa, etc?
srini_sadhu: The difference is one of emphasis
srini_sadhu: In both we are chanting mantras
srini_sadhu: In Puja there is more offerings to the deity and also more mantras for purification
srini_sadhu: Now a question for all: How do we benefit from reciting scriptures, how does it add value to our lives?
Ramya: Please share your experience, thoughts and guesses
Cynkay Morningsong: from my practice I can say that it benefits me by adding a level of groundedness to my life.
srini_sadhu: Welcome Alan!
Ann Millet: Implants God further in our minds
Ramya: Welcome Alan!
Alan: Hi everyone.
Cynkay Morningsong: Namaste' Alan
Linda Talbott: It adds to my life, and recitation is about all I am able to do. I feel happy and complete when I have done my EMS sankalpa and recitation of scripture.
srini_sadhu: In sanskrit the word Mantra means that which takes away the mind
srini_sadhu: By pronouncing Mantras in a certain way, we go inward and away from worldly thoughts
srini_sadhu: This brings us into a quiet space
Alan: Even if we do not understand the meaning of the sanskrit, right?
srini_sadhu: Yes Alan
Cynkay Morningsong: that was what I meant by groundedness
srini_sadhu: We do not need to understand at least initially
srini_sadhu: But understanding will improve the quality of our chanting
srini_sadhu: Sanskrit Mantras have two powers
Linda Talbott: There has been research that proved that just by reading Sanskrit, silently or aloud, it has much the same benefits as were earlier shown with Transcendental Meditation.
Ramya: Yes - the vibrations of sanskrit chanting have beneficial effects - at gross and subtle levels. So even if we don't understand - just saying the mantras helps!
srini_sadhu: One is called Vachak and the other is called Vaikarik
Kalachandra Chandra: Pranans dear family
srini_sadhu: Vachak is the intellectual meaning of the mantras
Linda Talbott: Hello kalachandra
Ramya: Welcome Kalachandra!
srini_sadhu: Vaikarik is the intuitive meaning of the mantras
Alan: What makes a Sanskrit text a mantra?
Alan: Not any Sanskrit text is a mantra.
Linda Talbott: Oh, that is a great question.
srini_sadhu: A Sanskrit Scripture like Chandi Path is a collection of mantras
Linda Talbott: I have seen long mantras and short mantras, so that can't be it.
srini_sadhu: Each Verse is a Mantra
Alan: Mantras have meter, right?
Linda Talbott: Is this also true with the Advanced Shiva Puja and other Puja Scriptures?
srini_sadhu: So Chandi Path, Guru Gita, Bhagavad Gita are scriptures that are composed of several mantras
srini_sadhu: Yes Linda
Linda Talbott: Thank you : )
srini_sadhu: Yes Alan, Each verse have a certain number of syllables and this is called metre
srini_sadhu: For example Gayatri metre means the verses in the scripture will have 24 syllables each
srini_sadhu: So chanting scriptures takes us inside because of the power of sanskrit
srini_sadhu: Obviously this has to be experienced
Linda Talbott: I love the whole thing with the meters ... it makes it like a song, or a poem. But I am not adept enough to do it the way Swamiji does.
Ramya: It helps us build a closer relationship with God!
srini_sadhu: The other benefit is very interesting
Linda Talbott: Oh, Ramya, yes!
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says there are two types of speech
srini_sadhu: One is Vedic and other is Bautika
Ramya: Linda - Maa says do step by step.
Linda Talbott: I have never heard of these.
Linda Talbott: Yes, Mother is definitely always right. : )
srini_sadhu: Vedic speech includes words of wisdom, words of communion, words which inspire us.
srini_sadhu: Bautika are words which take us into the world of objects and relationships.
srini_sadhu: All scriptures are vedic
srini_sadhu: By chanting them regularly we reduce the amount of bautika speech we put into the atmosphere
Linda Talbott: So there would be no Bautika in a scripture ... what about in the introductions? Would they include some of both or be only vedic also?
Ramya: When we do sadhana, we want to control our bautika speech which comes into our processing center as well as how much worldly speech comes out.
srini_sadhu: No Bautika in scriptures Linda
Linda Talbott: Oh, brother, do I ever need help with that.
Ramya: By controlling our worldly speech we can direct our awareness to words of wisdom.
Linda Talbott: Thank you Rangan.
Alan: Is there such a think as non-Sanskrit scriptures?
srini_sadhu: Sure. Bible, Koran, etc. But our focus here is on sanskrit chanting
Ramya: Swamiji and Maa show us the example of Rishis
Linda Talbott: Rangan, can you take any verse from any scripture such as the Chandi or the Advanced Shiva Puja, if it moves you, and use that as a mantra?
Ramya: Linda - You can do that
Linda Talbott: You mean about taking a verse and using it as a mantra?
Ramya: Yes Linda. In the beginning we want to take anything that inspires us and use it to go forward.
nodivision108: Is singing as good as chanting?
srini_sadhu: To recap: Chanting has two important benefits: It takes us inward and second it helps reduce the amount of worldly speech we put out
Ramya: Alan - The Rishis used the sanskrit scrptures and chanting to commune with God - Swamiji shows in His life how he did it and encourages to do the same.
srini_sadhu: Chris, in sanskrit singing is called Geet
srini_sadhu: Its different but is another way of going inward and feel devotion
nodivision108: Thanks
Alan: Thanks
Linda Talbott: Is Geet like Bhajan or Kirtan?
srini_sadhu: Maa says with singing we can go inside quickly
srini_sadhu: Bhajan and Kirtan are different forms of Geet
Linda Talbott: Oh, I'm really glad to hear that.
srini_sadhu: In terms of next few topics
srini_sadhu: We will discuss what are some considerations that are important when chnting and then we will discuss how to chant
srini_sadhu: Is it Ok so far?
Linda Talbott: Oh, thank you Ramya. :::clapping in excitement:::
Alan: Is path always audible? Or do the benefits come even by chanting silently in your mind?
srini_sadhu: There are three types
srini_sadhu: One is loud audible
srini_sadhu: Second when you pronounce the mantras while moving your lips - barely audible
srini_sadhu: Third is when you are chanting in your mind - inaudible
Linda Talbott: That is what I mostly have to do, because I run out of energy and my throat starts to hurt.
Ramya: Each has its benefit and used at different times in the life of a spiritual seeker!
srini_sadhu: Does that help Alan?
Alan: Yes, thanks.
Linda Talbott: Can you describe the different benefits of each type, Ramya?
Ramya: Linda - maybe we can save that question for discussion on the yahoo-group, if that is ok with you?
srini_sadhu: The first thing to understand before we start chanting is our intention / motivation
srini_sadhu: Why do we chant?
Linda Talbott: Very important ... :::sitting straighter in chair:::
srini_sadhu: Discussion?
Alan: One simple reason we chant is because we follow the rishis and sadhus (?).
Linda Talbott: Oh, yes, Ramya.
srini_sadhu: Faith!!
Cynkay Morningsong: I chant because when I do I feel as if I am in conversation with God, and that my relationship with Her goes Deeper!
Ramya: So beautiful Morningsong - Thanks for sharing!
srini_sadhu: I decided to start chanting the Chandi Path because it says in Chapter 12 that by chanting our relationships with loved ones are improved
Ramya: I chant because it feels like a tonic! A tonic of peace and love - very sweet!
srini_sadhu: As I continued to chant my reasons became different
srini_sadhu: My motivation now is to get asan siddhi and understand the scripture
Alan: Is japa considered to be a form of path?
srini_sadhu: Japa is part of Puja in our tradition
Ramya: Alan - Japa can be part of a scripture - e.g., we chant the Navarna mantra inside the Chandi.
srini_sadhu: But it could be part of Path too
Linda Talbott: And can't japa simply be repeating one of the names of God/dess over and over? Isn't this what Gandhi was doing when he was shot?
Ramya: Different reasons for chanting can be to get asan siddhi, for peace, for boons, for understanding, for devotion.
Linda Talbott: I'll settle for peace, understanding and devotion.
Alan: For many of the benefits of chanting, it seems it doesn't matter what you chant, especially if you don't understand the meaning of the sanskrit.
srini_sadhu: I agree Alan,
Ramya: It will help to keep your sankalpa if you can relate your chanting to your goal.
srini_sadhu: But understanding is like icing on the cake
Alan: For beginners, is there any difference between chanting Bhagavad Gita or Chandi?
srini_sadhu: No. I think we begin with scripture we are attracted to and chant it regularly
Ramya: As we understand our chanting becomes deeper and deeper. Swamiji once said something like -- until the scripture becomes our life - God becomes our life!
srini_sadhu: As you do this regularly, you become interested in understanding what you are chanting
Alan: Yes.
srini_sadhu: Sometimes when I chant the Chandi I use my hands to act out what is being chanted.
Ramya: The struggle with the chanting will become less - and the understanding will bring light of wisdom and sweetness of devotion.
Ramya: Till - it is no longer a discipline - it is all about love!
Ramya: We see this in the lives of Shree Maa and Swamiji!
srini_sadhu: What this does it makes my mind focus on the scripture instead of watching the movies of my life
Linda Talbott: Yes, Rangan, it is like that for me also.
Linda Talbott: Sometimes I feel I need to be rescued from the movies.
Linda Talbott: Hi Nanda : )
Ramya: Welcome Nanda!
srini_sadhu: Next we can discuss how to chant - different styles of chanting
srini_sadhu: Interesting stuff!
Cynkay Morningsong: Namaste' Nanda
srini_sadhu: Any questions before we go to next topic?
Alan: Will you cover asan/posture while chanting?
srini_sadhu: Yes Alan!
srini_sadhu: Ok, there are four styles of chanting
srini_sadhu: Tapasya, Shakti Path, Bhakti Path, and Jivanam
srini_sadhu: A path is performed for tapasya when the focus is on asan siddhi
srini_sadhu: This means not moving your knees till you complete chanting the scripture
Alan: Any particular posture?
srini_sadhu: In our tradition, we use siddhasana
Linda Talbott: That leaves me out .: ( But I have to be glad that Swamiji said it was okay for me to chant reclining in bed. I already am in pain from just the short time I have been sittiing here. :::sigh:::
srini_sadhu: What is the benefit of not moving our body when chanting?
Cynkay Morningsong: I'm with you Linda...lots of arthritis and pain when I sit too long...is there hope for me?
srini_sadhu: Most important thing is to love God. We do as much as we are capable
srini_sadhu: Start from where we are and try to improve
Linda Talbott: Well, I have gotten to the point where I can sit up in bed instead of only reclining ... so that is some sort of progress. And Swamiji always says, to each according to his (her) capacity.
srini_sadhu: yes Linda!
Ramya: Maa and Swamiji emphasize that God sees our heart - We do as much we are capable and God knows we are trying - we are Her little children!
Ann Millet: no distractions
srini_sadhu: Thanks Ann
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says that every movement of the body reflects a movement of the mind
Ramya: Thanks Ann! We cannot control our mind - but by sitting still we try to control our body.
Linda Talbott: That makes sense.
Ramya: By making our body still we have a chance at making our mind still
srini_sadhu: When I first started chanting most of my thoughts were about the pain in my body
srini_sadhu: I kept moving like a yoyo
Linda Talbott: Was this ordinary pain from doing something you hadn't done before, or illness pain?
srini_sadhu: Swamiji taught me a yoga posture called Baddha Konasana and that helped my posture
srini_sadhu: I try to practice it 5 minutes everyday
Ramya: Baddha konasana is a yoga posture called Butterfly pose
nodivision108: Even a short period of holding perfectly still is a good trick.
srini_sadhu: Just pain in the joints
Linda Talbott: Can someone post a picture of this pose in the files?
Ramya: Yes - Chris. Swamiji said that His Guru taught him to start with sitting still for 5 minutes a month and add 5 minutes every month
Cynkay Morningsong: I sit still as long as possible, then shift, then sit still again
Linda Talbott: I would like something I could try out when I get an altar made.
Ramya: so that meant that in 1 year - it is one hour of sitting still!
srini_sadhu: Three things that helped me: Using a bookstand, practicing baddhakonasan and being regular in chanting everyday
Linda Talbott: Regularity helps ... the EMS Sankalpa taught me that big time.
srini_sadhu: Welcome Alphansa, we were talking about posture when chanting
srini_sadhu: The next type of chanting is Shakti Path
Alphansa DSouza: Hi.. ok
nodivision108: Namaste Alphansa!
srini_sadhu: In Shakti Path the most important ingredient is pranayama
srini_sadhu: Here the emphasis is on inhaling a mantra silently and exhaling the verse
srini_sadhu: You could chant 1/4 verse, half verse, one verse and so on
Ramya: Pranayama involves chanting a mantra when we breathe in (silently) and then chanting a verse from the scripture when we breathe out.
srini_sadhu: You breath in and as you breath in you say a mantra in you mind for the duration of the inhalation
Alan: Which mantra do you choose for the in-breath?
Linda Talbott: I'm confused. If a verse from a scripture is a mantra, then how do you chant a mantra and then a mantra? How do you differentiate?
Ramya: Alan - we can chant a mantra given by a Guru (Guru mantra) or any other mantra.
srini_sadhu: For example, the Navarna Mantra
Ramya: Linda - For example if we are using the mantra "Om Aim Hrim Klim Chamundayai Vicche" as our mantra.
srini_sadhu: Most of the thoughts occur when you inhale
Ramya: We say this mantra in our mind silently when we breathe in and then read the verse from the scripture when we breathe out.
srini_sadhu: By inhaling a mantra you reduce the likelihood of worldly thoughts
nodivision108: Inhale, exhale same duration?
srini_sadhu: Not necessarily Chris
Cynkay Morningsong: if I can chant two verses to a breath is that okay?
Ann Millet: yes - beautiful way to bypass mind
srini_sadhu: For example, Swamiji sometimes chants 5 verses to a breath
Alan: Shakti path can still be done inaudibly, right? Even with the emphasis on pranayama?
srini_sadhu: His inhalation may be for 4-5 seconds, and the exhalation is much longer
Ramya: Yes - we have God's name when we breathe in and breathe out - Ann!
srini_sadhu: It has to be audible Alan
srini_sadhu: The third syle is Bhakti Path
Ramya: Mornnigsong - there are no rules, in my understanding.
srini_sadhu: We are chanting here for understanding
srini_sadhu: We chant slower than other styles so that we can focus on the meaning
Ramya: Morningsong - the key is to be consistent through out the scripture - if we start with 2 verses we try to keep 2 verses to a breath through out the recitation
srini_sadhu: For example, 1/4 verse to a breath
srini_sadhu: This style is more common in South India
Cynkay Morningsong: thanks... that's why I stay at two... over and I become less consistent
Alan: Is Bhakti path --chanting for understanding -- possible for those who don't understand Sanskrit?
srini_sadhu: So tapasya, emphasis on Asan, Shakti Path emphasis on Pranayam and Bhakti Path emphasis on meaning
Ramya: Well, its all a matter of practice and time - Goal is to feel close to God!
Ramya: Usually in Bhakti path, as i have heard it the chanting sounds like a lilting melody.
Ramya: So Alan, i think even we don't know the meaning, we can still follow the verses!
srini_sadhu: Swamiji says we chant the sanskrit and then at other times read the translation to understand the meaning. When we chant slowly it is easier to fcous on the meaning
Alan: Right - thanks.
srini_sadhu: Asan Pranayam and Understanding are all connected.
Ramya: Maa said that we have to find our own meanings.
Cynkay Morningsong: I love when I know the verse well enough to chant in Sanscrit but read in English!
srini_sadhu: At different times our emphasis changes as our taste changes
nodivision108: The meaning for me is in what the mantras seem to do - the meaning of the words seems secondary.
Ramya: A word-for-word translation may give the meaning at the gross level - but we need to read, understand, think and meditate
Ramya: On each verse and each word - to understand for ourselves what it "REALLY" means -at the gross, subtle and causal level.
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Alan - Swamiji has said that sometimes some of the mantras call out to us and we focus on them more during the chanting. Perhaps as we chant more, then more and more mantras will start calling out to us. For example, I see Swamiji get really excited when the word "Kali" pops up in the chanting. He seems to chant it with a certain punch and vigor.
srini_sadhu: The fourth style is Jivanam
Alan: Thanks Nanda.
srini_sadhu: Hard to describe. Swamiji demonstrated it to me once when we were walking.
srini_sadhu: Here for each verse in the scripture we start with long OM and then pronounce and elongate each syllable and then end the verse with along OM
srini_sadhu: a long OM
srini_sadhu: So it will take quite a while to chant each verse
srini_sadhu: Any questions?
Alan: Any differences between chanting in front of the homa fire and chanting elsewhere?
nodivision108: It somehow seems more real in front of a homa fire.
srini_sadhu: I find that chanting at the fire gives me more focus and attention
Ramya: Swamiji said we have three components in our practice: puja, path and homa.
Ramya: when we chant (do Path) in front of fire - we are combining path and homa.
Cynkay Morningsong: so when I am chanting mrytunjaya mantra with the Om Jum Sah... that is jivanam, or only when you use Om?
srini_sadhu: That is not Jivanam Morningsong
srini_sadhu: It is the elongated pronunciation of each syllable that makes the chant Jivanam
srini_sadhu: You are giving life to each syllable
Cynkay Morningsong: aah
Ramya: Swamiji said he can demonstrate this at the retreat. He said it is hard to understand without demonstration.
srini_sadhu: Could we wrap up?
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Thats a wrap
Alan: Thank you again!
Cynkay Morningsong: Thank you sooo much
srini_sadhu: Summary from ramya!
Ramya: In Tapasya focus is on Asan, In shakti on pranayam, in Bhakti on understanding and Jivanam - focus on giving life to mantra.
nodivision108: Thank you Srini, for helping us all learn these things. Jai Maa!
Alphansa DSouza: I guess I missed a good class...hope to read it all on the net... Thanks to all!
Ramya: These are just different categories to help us understand
Ramya: but the Bottom Line - Hey Alphonsa - this is the most important thing!
Ramya: Is that it is all about Loving God!
Alphansa DSouza: yeah... I will read it all for sure !!!!
Ramya: These are different ways to help us feel that love and peace - within us and for us to share with the universe!
Ann Millet: Yes!! Thank you so very much
srini_sadhu: Thank you all!
Cynkay Morningsong: I'm feeling it now!
Ramya: Thank you! Jai Maa!
Cynkay Morningsong: Jai Maa
Nanda Krishnamurthi: Thank you Srini and Ramya for these illuminating thoughts